Solana Podcast

How Do You Get Involved in Decentralized Open Source? Dominic Tsang. Episode 4: No Sharding Podcast

About Solana: We are a lightning-fast distributed ledger technology for mission-critical decentralized apps. This podcast is a discussion between our staff, community developers, and industry leaders. You can follow us on Twitter @solana or GitHub @solana-labs. Subscribe on SpotifyApple PodcastsGoogle Podcasts, or the direct rss feed.

Dominic Tsang chats with Andrew Hyde on how he got involved in several decentralized open source projects.

No Sharding is the Solana Podcast.

About Solana: We are a lightning-fast blockchain technology for mission-critical decentralized apps. This podcast is a discussion between our team, community developers, and industry leaders. You can follow us on Twitter twitter.com/solana or GitHub github.com/solana-labs.

Andrew Hyde: Welcome everybody to this Solana podcasts. This is Andrew Hyde, I am back in San Francisco this week. We have our new podcasting studio set up, so better sound for your ears. I’m excited about that. We also have a lot of guests coming up and a lot of really cool things planned for the podcast, so thanks for tuning in. As always, email podcast@solana.com if you have any tips, pointers, concerns or corrections. I think this episode we might have a lot of audience engagement. I’m joined by Dominic Tsang. Hey, Dom.

Dominic Tsang: Hey, how you going?

Andrew Hyde: Doing super well? We have some crossover in that we both work at Solana, but we also were both in the Telegram channel long ago.

Dominic Tsang: That’s right, yeah.

Andrew Hyde: I want to know more about you, and do you want to introduce yourself to the podcast listeners?

Dominic Tsang: Sure, so I’m Dominique. I do a bunch of things at Solana, but main focus right now is BD and community.

Andrew Hyde: You’re doing business development. You have a nice Australian accent.

Dominic Tsang: Thanks.

Andrew Hyde: You live in Melbourne?

Dominic Tsang: Yeah, from Melbourne.

Andrew Hyde: For people not from Australia, Melbourne. You drop all, all vowels, right?

Dominic Tsang: I’ve never really thought about it that way, but yeah. Sure.

Andrew Hyde: The American, you know, way of saying it is Melbourne.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah, that’s true. Yeah.

Andrew Hyde: You add five vowels. You’re from Melbourne, you are off in San Francisco for a couple weeks?

Dominic Tsang: Yeah, so I spend most of my time in between Melbourne and San Francisco. I’d say as much as possible in Melbourne and probably a month every two to three months in San Francisco and then the rest of the time traveling, I guess, for events and to meet potential partners.

Andrew Hyde: You’re all around the world, it’s amazing.

Dominic Tsang: It gets tiring. You start getting sick of watching the same movie over and over again on the airplane.

Andrew Hyde: I love how my definition of what the company is has changed over a couple months. I would love to hear your current definition of what is Solana.

Dominic Tsang: My current definition of what Solana is, is ideally the transaction layer above other block chains and network. There might be some value in trying to compete with other chains, but I think the real value here is being able to create a very fast user efficient platform that can trade digital assets without compromising the value of the underlying assets.

Andrew Hyde: I think that’s a pretty clear definition, but it’s also like a big… Do you want to about Libra at all?

Dominic Tsang: I’m probably not the best person to ask about Libra. I have a high level view, but I don’t have too much value to add there. Obviously, Solana’s broken up into a lot of technical components as well, so that’s why I kind of gave the bird’s eye view because someone like Anatole could probably give better nitty gritty breakdown of how exactly it works. In terms of real value add for the community, I think being a transaction layer and hopefully offering a better user experience is probably the key.

Dominic Tsang: The challenge right now is that all of the applications coming out are obviously slow. We hit our narrative talking about or spoken about a lot. For us there’s internal line of thinking where, if we can start building applications that are somewhat similar to, arguably. web 2.0 applications in terms of experience, response time and also the economics of it being viable to have transaction costs significantly low guaranteeing that, then maybe we have a chance at adoption. Until then, anything we build might have blockchain characteristics, but that’s not enough. There’s a few elements that need to come together there.

Andrew Hyde: I’m really excited about just generally what the developers are going to build on top of it.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah, pretty much. The idea is to empower these guys to build anything within their wildest dreams, right?

Andrew Hyde: We’re bringing the speed. Every blockchain opensource project that I’ve seen out there is putting 10% of their transaction on chain and 90% of it doing it some funky way in the background that gets pretty complicated, pretty quickly.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah.

Andrew Hyde: It works, but there’s this giant asterisk, so if it is blockchain, it is working.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah. At the same time, I wouldn’t take a stab at what they’re doing. I think there’s a lot of projects out there competing within, say, the zero to 10,000 transaction range. Transaction is just one element of what they offer. There’s projects like [inaudible 00:04:55] who are focusing on unchain governance, which is extremely attractive to a lot of people, and then there’s projects like cosmos who have done an amazing job at abstracting away the complexity of blockchain.

Dominic Tsang: Those features alone are enough for developers to be attracted to that. For us, at least for now, we’re probably not competing on usability or governance, but purely on performance, and that in itself has its own inherent value. If there’s any way we can leverage our offering and integrate that to help empower some of these other projects that have a feature set that’s different to us, that’d be pretty interesting.

Andrew Hyde: I think that the way we go about being a company is not trying to say we’re better than this company because of this; We’re faster, we’re this. I mean, we’re going to be a fast blockchain, or hopefully we’re the most performant one in the world.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah.

Andrew Hyde: We say that a lot, but I think that we have a love for the industry and we have a love for people that are doing anything in the industry.

Dominic Tsang: 100%.

Andrew Hyde: I love learning from them. I mean, especially if the projects are open.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah. At the end of the day, all these projects are building on top of each other’s ideas, right? Even though one might not capture certain elements, we’re all kind of getting inspired by each other and trying to create the next best thing. I think it’s a really amazing melting pot for innovation.

Andrew Hyde: Which brings me to my next question, which is, how did you get involved in Solana?

Dominic Tsang: Yeah, so I’ve got a pretty nontraditional story, I guess. I actually came from the construction engineering space prior to this doing a lot of product management and also dabbled a little bit in the property development side. I first kind of got intrigued quite late, I’d say, so around late 2016. At that time, there were some interesting blockchain products coming out of Australia. Australia is quite pro-blockchain and Oracle. There are a few projects like Republic Protocol and also Power Ledger. I started digging into some of the ideas and what they were trying to achieve. It all sounded really interesting and I really bought into the ideal of decentralization and what this could actually bring for society as a whole.

Dominic Tsang: Obviously, it’s very idealistic, but it was still extremely attractive. That’s when I started reaching out to a few projects. I started a full-time job at the time, which I love and I still love actually. I kind of took this on as a hobby to participate and support some of these projects where it made sense. I kind of did this on and off for around a year, maybe a year and a half.

Dominic Tsang: A portion of that time, particularly early 2018, was with Solana. I wasn’t doing anything special there; maybe just offering some community support. I think it reached a point where Solana as a product needed to scale and there was an opportunity to participate or to join the company full-time. To be honest, it was a bit of a hard decision. It’s not that I’m not committed to the space, but I also have a strong passion for building things. I think that’s ultimately what kind of brought me across the idea of building something, not necessarily a structure like the next hospital, the next library, but actually building something that’s software. I was like, “Okay, let’s give it a crack. Let’s give it a crack for some time and see how it goes.” Obviously, it’s now been almost a year. I’m still around, so I guess that speaks for itself.

Andrew Hyde: I remember seeing the Telegram group.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah, exactly.

Andrew Hyde: You know, we’re both huge fans of open source.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah.

Andrew Hyde: I think that I’m on 50 Telegram groups.

Dominic Tsang: Oh, yeah.

Andrew Hyde: Just kind of peeking in, and checking out what people are doing.

Dominic Tsang: Possibly keep it inbox zero, is it?

Andrew Hyde: Absolutely, yeah. There’s a lot more ways to get involved. I mean, for us, Telegram used to be a bigger deal and now it’s discord and [inaudible 00:08:56] is where all the action’s going, all the development.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah, exactly right.

Andrew Hyde: We’ve got Tour De Sol.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah.

Andrew Hyde: You’re playing a role on that.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah, yeah, I’m helping the team where I can with Tour De Sol. Tour De Sol’s been an amazing experience, to be honest. I think being able to actually engage in the community at a deeper level, collecting feedback and being able to put a face to the name, right, like with bitcoin [inaudible 00:09:20] work. A lot of the miners didn’t really know each other, there wasn’t really any incentive to know each other either, but with proof of stake protocols it’s completely different. I love the energy that you get. I love that you put a face to a name. I think it also offers a lot of new business opportunities outside of just staking alone. Staking becomes like a bridge for other potential partnerships, and I don’t think that’s fully been fleshed out yet. I’m pretty optimistic that, that could turn out to be quite interesting.

Andrew Hyde: Yeah, so Tour De Sol is our incentivized testnet event.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah, sorry, I went on a tangent there. Tour De Sols is our incentivized testnet event. It’s going to be running, it is already currently running, all the way through to October or at least that’s what we’re targeting at the moment. That’s obviously changed, but at a high level it’s a way for us to start testing what we’ve built today in a permission-less environment with external validators.

Dominic Tsang: We’ve done tests internally, which we’re quite happy with but we know there’s still a lot of work to go. I’m really confident that with the help of the external community that we can really make something pretty cool. To break down the structure, right now, it’s split into four stages, starting from stage zero through to stage three.

Dominic Tsang: Stage zero is focused on stability and it’s going to run throughout the balance of August. Stage one’s targeted to start in September, which will be focused on performance. That will just be simple transaction being set between nodes on a network and testing how fast or how much capacity we can actually handle on a truly permission-less environment. Stage two, we’ll be simulating a decks case or decks use case. I think, beyond just showing that we have high throughput, it’s extremely important for us to actually apply to something that’s practical as well. The decks use case is our attempt to do that.

Dominic Tsang: Stage three, which will be the most feature complete permission-less test that we’ll be rolling out, and the one that’s immediately before our targeted main net is going to have the full kit and caboodle in there. It’ll have slashing or have replicators, which is another type of node you can probably read online about, but it will essentially be a [inaudible 00:11:45]. We’re hoping that we’ll be able to flesh out most of the issues through this process and have a bit fun along the way, right? Really looking forward to it.

Andrew Hyde: Yeah, I’m trying to figure out how do we actually talk or encourage validators to come on to Tour De Sol.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah, for sure. Solana’s going [inaudible 00:12:07] informs where we have a few threads going. It covers some of the weekly meetings we’ve had with validators. I guess Wade sight is the registration thread where we’ve got steps for how people can get involved, what the process looks like, what’s in it for them and also what the requirements are. Outside of that, if they’re interested in getting context, the validator round table call, which I mentioned earlier, we run that every two weeks. We typically invite everyone who’s registered for Tour De Sol to participate. It’s just a forum for us to basically engage with the community.

Dominic Tsang: Given that everyone’s globally distributed, it makes it a bit difficult to meet in person. Then there’s [inaudible 00:12:48], which is basically a live channel where most of our engineers live. It’s basically their second home. We do our best to try to get through as many questions as possible. Every question is awesome because, for us, someone’s asking a question, it probably means that we haven’t been clear enough or something’s gone wrong, so that’s super, super helpful.

Andrew Hyde: Yeah, I jumped on the validator call this week.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah, that’s right. How’d you like it?

Andrew Hyde: It was a fun one. I’m not a technical… I’m like one of the two people at Solana that’s not at a terminal every day, but it was actually fascinating. I mean, the first dry run did not go well. It went for 30 minutes and then it totally turfed.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Andrew Hyde: Something like that, but it was just kinda fun to see everybody kind of excited about that.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah, exactly.

Andrew Hyde: And be like, “Oh, here’s what actually happened and here’s how we fix that bug.”

Dominic Tsang: Yeah.

Andrew Hyde: It actually was like a pretty simple bug, but this is what happ-, you know, full transparency on it and everybody was kind of excited about that.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah, I think the more transparency you get in the space, the better. Like ultimately, the aim of Tour De Sol was to find issues, right, and to do what we can to try and get people onboarded and also compensate them for their time if possible.

Andrew Hyde: I think that’s a good way to do it. You’ve got ownership of the project.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah, working together with a few others, but yeah.

Andrew Hyde: I’m hoping we have a hundred nodes by the end of Tour De Sol. Is that your number?

Dominic Tsang: Yeah, so I think this number’s forever evolving, but yeah. [inaudible 00:14:14] launch we’re targeting 100. The reason why we’re targeting that is just because I think there’s a line of thought within the industry, or maybe it’s just me, that there’s probably only around 100 professional nodes who are positioned well to maybe participate, particularly at this level. Then, outside of that, for the replicated nodes, we’d probably be targeting something around a 1,000, if not more, because that’s something that’s easy to onboard.

Andrew Hyde: I mean, you can spin it up on your laptop, right?

Dominic Tsang: Pretty much, yeah.

Andrew Hyde: Very, very lightweight. If you were to coach somebody listening on how to get involved, how would you do that?

Dominic Tsang: Sure, so I think there’s few ways to get involved. You can get involved as a validator, which is available now and in sub-participating in Tour De Sol. The other one is, as a replicator which, like you said earlier, you can just run that on your laptop. We’ve got an alpha version of that out, but in a few more weeks we’re hoping to have something a little bit more polished for people to test out, so that’s an alternative way you could run a node on Solana and be compensated for doing so as well.

Dominic Tsang: Outside of that though, there’s, we’re obviously always looking for great talent. Usually, what we do is we post up some of the issues on our [inaudible 00:15:26]. We’ve got some great, good first issues there, awesome community prices and people can always contribute from that front. That’s basically a bounty program. To be honest, some of our highs have actually come through that as well, which is, it’s a great way for people to show initiative if they’re genuinely interested.

Dominic Tsang: Outside of the technical space, I think there’s going to be plenty of opportunities. Ultimately, we do want to scale as a company globally. We’re actively looking for people who are genuinely passionate about blockchain and can help represent us in various regions as well. If you do see us at events in the coming months, where we’ll be quite active, make sure to reach out. We’ll probably be sending a few of our team around various parts of the world and doing some slightly longer stints to help educate, to get involved in local communities in various regions. I think that’s a great opportunity to start engaging learning more about Solana first and seeing if it’s a right fit for them. If it is, then we can have a more serious discussion. I think those are the main ways where people can get involved. For now, I’m sure I’m forgetting one or two.

Andrew Hyde: If you work at a, if you’re working at a blockchain company, and you’re in San Francisco, maybe have a coffee.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, for sure.

Andrew Hyde: I mean, we had a couple this week with other projects.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah.

Andrew Hyde: Which was fun. We should do that a lot more as we both travel or we both live on planes.

Dominic Tsang: Pretty much, yeah. I think everyone in this space is trying to cut down that as much as possible.

Andrew Hyde: I mean we’ve got a couple of big things. We’re going to Devcon.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah.

Andrew Hyde: [crosstalk 00:17:03] coming up. You’re going to Berlin for…

Dominic Tsang: Correct, yeah. I believe we’ll also be aiming to go into China during Shanghai blockchain week in September. I’m not sure if this podcast will be released in time, but Greg will also be in Washington state for TravelCon II, and the other one is Russ [inaudible 00:17:22], which is coming up around the same time as Berlin blockchain week.

Andrew Hyde: I wonder if Russ developers realize how in demand they are right now.

Dominic Tsang: I’m sure. I’m sure they are. I think the question is whether a large population of Russ developers necessarily have a genuine interest for blockchain just yet.

Andrew Hyde: My hope, you know this is a question I’m going to ask you in about two minutes, my hope is that in a year we’ve got a lot of people using the speed and using it more as an enterprise database than a heavy blockchain project, right? They’re actually just using it because it’s actually comparable to a AWS or for whatever purpose they have.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah. In an ideal world, I think a year might be a little bit too optimistic, maybe for permission deployments. I still don’t see them being interested in permission-less deployments just yet, like after having multiple conversations from the enterprise space. Maybe a lot of people haven’t had enough conversations there and they don’t appreciate that technology is a very small part of the pie. There are many other things to consider in terms of stakeholder management, legal considerations, administrative functionality, things which blockchain isn’t necessarily optimized for right now, but I’m sure it’s being built out somewhat behind the scenes.

Andrew Hyde: In one year from now, August, 2020, where is Solana?

Dominic Tsang: Ideally, in a year, we’d like to be a major player within the defi space. I think within now and the next year, that’s probably one of the areas where there’s the most demand, and it’s also a proven use case: trading blockchain assets. There’s been proven use case over the past decade. The question is trying to build and find the right product that’s actually going to add value over existing financial products. I think that’s a constant exploration. Outside of that, though, I think there’s plenty of opportunity in payments and identity, which we’re also pursuing as well. I guess at a high level outside of just use cases, I think a globally distributed team, one that’s scaled even beyond, I think we’re at 24 employees now roughly, and hopefully some self sustaining communities within some of the major regions like Asia, here, over in the US.

Andrew Hyde: Do you think we’re going to still be saying No Sharding?

Dominic Tsang: I don’t know. I think we obviously use that messaging, but I think sharding is an extremely important technology and I think, at some point, it’s inevitable that either even us any other project will want to adopt that technology. Right now, there are definitely some issues with it or some challenges I’d say, not necessarily issues; particularly around user experience for applications across shards and also the complexity around it. I’m confident that the researchers and also the developers in the space will solve that eventually. It’s just in the short term, since we’re talking about a year time span that I’m not sure how fleshed out that could be.

Andrew Hyde: Every time I dig into it with somebody, it’s just the complexity in the first minute of the conversation when we’re not even really into the meat of it is already way too much for me. I love the people that are obsessing over that.

Dominic Tsang: We need them.

Andrew Hyde: I hope that they succeed.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah, exactly.

Andrew Hyde: Quickly. I think the reality of it is that that’s not coming quick and that’s not going to happen in the next year.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah, I think it definitely will in some form. It’s just a question of how well [inaudible 00:20:58] is by that stage. Yeah.

Andrew Hyde: And if there’s any trade offs with that.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah, exactly. I guess any solution, even if it’s a primitive solution, will come out with those trade offs in consideration. I think a lot of teams that are thinking about it are thinking about it very holistically, so I’m optimistic. I think it will just take time.

Andrew Hyde: My one year from now prediction is that we have one dap with at least 50,000 users.

Dominic Tsang: It depends, right? It depends on what sort of product comes out. I’d like to say that we’d be able to capture more of a market than that within a year time span, assuming that we do deliver on the promise and we do find some interesting use cases because the defi sector [inaudible 00:21:40] a huge user base. Even if we were to capture a traditional institutional investors and traditional retail investors, optimistically looking at the amount of wallets around in the space at the moment, there’s still a number significantly higher than 50,000 that’s actively somewhat interested in blockchain. Chances are that a decent portion are trading in some way, but I think that number is greater than 50,000.

Andrew Hyde: I hope so, but right now, what, the largest app in the world has 4,000 daily active users?

Dominic Tsang: Yeah, 100%.

Andrew Hyde: Saying 50,000 a year is actually pretty aggressive for a new layer one solution.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah, it’s true actually.

Andrew Hyde: I think it’s an aggressive thing.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah.

Andrew Hyde: If we meet it, it’s going to be amazing. We might need to January, who knows, or we might not.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah.

Andrew Hyde: That’s the exciting part about being on the cutting edge tech startup is that you don’t know.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah, exactly.

Andrew Hyde: We think the tech is going to prove out. We don’t know that though.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah.

Andrew Hyde: Right, and these dry runs can not produce anything.

Dominic Tsang: 100%, yeah.

Andrew Hyde: I mean, this has come very complex. If it was easy, somebody would have done it already, so we’re in a lovely place, but also it’s an exciting place.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah.

Andrew Hyde: Let’s finish off the podcast with just open source projects you love.

Dominic Tsang: Open source projects that I love, I really like the approach Cosmos has in terms of community and also the technology, as well, and also the concept of the not requiring people to necessarily use Cosmos, though know there is a bit of debate about what the value of the atom token is going on right now. I think the theory of the community’s commitment to decentralization is very respectful. I’m really looking forward to [Heath 00:23:27] 2.0, to be honest. Sure, they might not be focusing on scalability, and so on, but I think it’s thanks to projects like that and teams like that, that this whole space even thrives until today as it is.

Andrew Hyde: I’m with you on that. I mean, we’ve got our Tour De Sol is throwback to and a thank you to Game of Stakes by Cosmos.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah, exactly.

Andrew Hyde: I think on the open source a lot of people are just going to play off each other.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah, for sure.

Andrew Hyde: We’re going to start doing work with a Bitcoin. Kevin, out of Boulder, old tech friend of mine, we’re going to start throwing up some [inaudible 00:24:02]. My favorite things that happened this week was when we did have some news about something that we raised some money, which I don’t even really want to talk about, like it’s cool, you can look it up if you want to see it, but the same week we launched kind of our seven innovations where we really detailed and wrote a huge saga series about the seven technical innovations, so Solana [inaudible 00:24:21].

Dominic Tsang: Yeah, its been exciting.

Andrew Hyde: That’s so much more exciting.

Dominic Tsang: It’s been really exciting to be able to get that out actually. I think in stealth-mode, we’ve been trying to find the time to actually put pen to paper on that sense, right?

Andrew Hyde: That’s up, that’s on there, it’s on the blog and, because of the news, and because of the innovations, and because of Tour De Sol, our Twitter, just @Solana, has been a pretty active this week.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah, man, good stuff.

Andrew Hyde: Which is really fun to watch. My favorite thing is happening is the validators are taking pictures of their regs.

Dominic Tsang: Oh, yeah. Hardware port is amazing, isn’t it?

Andrew Hyde: It’s just hardware, like just souped up computers. All the gamers are looking at it, and going, “Dang, that is a set up,” so that’s a pretty fun thing. I might actually put on some bounties on Bitcoin.

Dominic Tsang: For sure.

Andrew Hyde: Just like, “Show us your reg.” I really want to see what that looks like.

Dominic Tsang: I’m looking forward to seeing what comes of that.

Andrew Hyde: I think that’s my ask this week from the community is if you have any ideas for ways we can incentivize you to get involved or ways that we can do something that’s really exciting to you.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah, no, I think that’s a great start.

Andrew Hyde: You can email me at andrew@solana.com or at podcast@solana.com, and it’ll get to us. Any closing thoughts for this week in No Sharding?

Dominic Tsang: No, I think we’ve got most of the covered. Anything from your end, do you reckon?

Andrew Hyde: I want to say there’s this lovely culture that Solana has. Everybody that I speak with on the podcast and everybody that I hang out with in the office is super kind. I met you via the forums and I met you because people were like, “Oh yeah, Dom, everybody likes him.”

Dominic Tsang: Hopefully I can live up to that.

Andrew Hyde: You’re everywhere on all the channels. You’re on Discord, Telegram, the forum, you’re leading a lot of this product, so I think a lot of the public facing kindness that people see from the outside is from you. Thank you for being that.

Dominic Tsang: It works both ways. I think we’re pretty lucky. Kind of like all the messaging we’ve be sending out, we’re not just fluffing it up. I think the support and the positivity we’ve been receiving back from the community just makes it that much easier as well, right?

Andrew Hyde: The validator call this week is a perfect example. It was like we screwed up, there were some bugs, it lasted for far too, you know, and everybody was just like, “Damn, that was cool. Good job,” and I love that. The bugs are hopefully fully squashed, but, you know, it’s software.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah.

Andrew Hyde: There will be more bugs.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah.

Andrew Hyde: You can guarantee that.

Dominic Tsang: It’s never ending.

Andrew Hyde: It’s never ever, ever ending, but we’ve got some absolutely brilliant takes on technology here and it’s cool to watch us harness the value of a global community. We’re going to be, as a team, probably in six countries next month.

Dominic Tsang: Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

Andrew Hyde: Six, seven.

Dominic Tsang: I haven’t even counted.

Andrew Hyde: I haven’t even told you about my travel schedule, so yeah. We’d love to meet up with you around the world if you’re listening in. I’m Andrew Hyde. Dominique Siang, any final words?

Dominic Tsang: No, I think I’m good. Thanks. Appreciate it.

Andrew Hyde: Thanks for being on, cheers.

Andrew Hyde: Hey everybody. Thanks for listening to this episode. If you have any questions for our guests or want to continue this discussion, please check out our website at solana.com; that’s S-O-L-A-N-A.com. There are links to our discord where most of our communication happens in the company. Also, you should check out our get hub page where we post all of our code for you to checkout and even help out with: gethub.com/solana-labs. You can also follow us on Twitter: @Solana. Thanks for listening. See you next weekend.