Talking Tokens
Talking Tokens
April 21, 2026·42:26

Most RWAs Are Built Wrong | Ayyan Rahman

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Ayyan Rahman, co-founder and chief growth officer at OnRe, about why most real-world asset (RWA) projects in crypto are fundamentally misaligned with how DeFi actually works.Ayyan explains that tokenization alone isn’t enough and that many RWAs today function more like repackaged traditional finance than truly composable on-chain assets. He breaks down why this creates a risk of “Wall Street exit liquidity,” and what it actually takes to build an asset that integrates properly into DeFi systems.The conversation explores why reinsurance offers a unique source of uncorrelated yield, how tokenization can unlock more efficient capital scaling, and why liquidity, redemption mechanics, and risk modeling need to be rethought for on-chain markets.They also discuss the impact of Drift Protocol’s exploit on market confidence, what stress reveals about DeFi systems, why the idea of “risk-free yield” is flawed, and how institutional capital is evaluating onchain opportunities. The episode closes with a broader look at where crypto is heading from speculative markets toward more structured, resilient financial systems built around real assets.This episode is a part of the Solana Sessions campaign that Token Relations and the Talking Tokens podcast are doing, diving into founders’ journeys and startups building on Solana. Check out the accompanying newsletter on https://www.token-relations.com/investor-updates/all?network=Solana TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Introduction00:32 The Tokenization Illusion01:59 Tokenization vs Reality03:15 Why Reinsurance Actually Matters06:22 The Real Unlock: Scaling Capital09:05 Building a DeFi-Compatible Asset12:14 What Breaks DeFi Under Stress17:13 The Question That Actually Matters22:07 Redefining Risk in DeFi23:49 The Yield Trap29:06 Best Gameplan for Growth36:37 Where Adoption Actually Comes FromEpisodes air every Tuesday and Thursday on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, X and more.For more updates, subscribe to the Talking Tokens newsletter here: https://talkingtokens.beehiiv.com/ And follow us on X: Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Token Relations: https://twitter.com/Token_Relations This podcast is built by Token Relations.Please note that this podcast is for informational purposes only and any views shared by anyone on the show are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have a direct or indirect financial interest in content mentioned in this episode.

JM
Jacquelyn Melinek

Most RWAs Are Built Wrong | Ayyan Rahman

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What Hyperliquid Could Change About Traditional Markets | Jake Chervinsky
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September 17, 2026

What Hyperliquid Could Change About Traditional Markets | Jake Chervinsky

In today's episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn sits down with Jake Chervinsky, founder and CEO of Hyperliquid Policy Center, to discuss how perpetual futures could move beyond crypto and what it would take to bring regulated onchain markets to the U.S Jake breaks down why 24/7 price discovery matters, how perpetual futures could complement traditional derivatives markets, and why oil could be a natural next market for onchain trading. They discuss Hyperliquid's role as infrastructure for exchanges, the potential for regulated perpetual futures in the U.S., how onchain markets could improve liquidity and price discovery, and why not every traditional market necessarily needs to trade 24/7.  Timestamps 00:00 Jake Chervinsky and the Hyperliquid Policy Center   02:37 Why Jake believes in Hyperliquid   05:03 What makes Hyperliquid different   06:21 Taking perpetual futures beyond crypto   09:39 Perpetual futures explained   11:25 What 24/7 markets reveal about price discovery   13:01 Why pricing doesn't stop when markets close   14:08 Should every market trade 24/7?   16:01 Why oil could be the next market for perpetual futures   18:44 Who would use oil perpetuals?   19:18 What Hyperliquid could change about financial markets   21:00 Bringing regulated perpetual futures to the U.S.  New episodes every week  https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141  Follow us  Jacquelyn on X: /jacqmelinek  Talking Tokens on X: /_talkingtokens  Talking Tokens on Instagram: /_talkingtokens  Follow Jake Chervinsky https://www.linkedin.com/in/jakechervinsky https://www.linkedin.com/in/jakechervinsky This episode is sponsored by Forgd, visit its Market Maker Leaderboard on Token Relations here: www.stratamedia.co/token-relations/leaderboard  Today’s episode is sponsored by Anchorage Digital, America's first federally chartered digital asset bank and provider of regulated stablecoin issuance. To find out more, visit anchorage.com  This episode is brought to you by GSR, crypto’s capital markets partner, learn more at https://www.gsr.io/

Convergence Episode 1: How WisdomTree Went From $30M to $1 Billion in Onchain AUM
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September 16, 2026

Convergence Episode 1: How WisdomTree Went From $30M to $1 Billion in Onchain AUM

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From Pokémon Cards to Birkins: Inside Beezie’s $200M+ Volume | Andrea Miele
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From Pokémon Cards to Birkins: Inside Beezie’s $200M+ Volume | Andrea Miele

In today's episode of Solana Sessions, Jacquelyn sits down with Andrea Miele, CEO and founder of Beezie, to explore how gamification, tokenization and onchain infrastructure are changing the way consumers discover and buy collectibles. Andrea breaks down how Beezie grew from tokenized trading cards into a broader gamified commerce platform, recently crossing $200 million in volume and $100 million in total revenue. They discuss Beezie's expansion into luxury markets through its partnership with The Luxury Closet, how users can access everything from Pokémon cards to luxury handbags through its digital claw-machine experience, and why Andrea believes the future of shopping is about more than simply searching, clicking and buying. She also explains why Beezie abstracts away the blockchain experience for mainstream users, how onchain transparency can help build trust, why Solana has become a key ecosystem for the company, and where gamified commerce could expand next. Timestamps: 00:10 Andrea journey from collector to founder 02:26 How shopping behavior is changing 03:20 How Beezie's digital claw machine works 05:25 Why trading cards found product-market fit 06:49 Building through doubt as a founder 07:51 What drove Beezie's growth 08:51 Growing to $200M in volume and $100M in revenue 11:28 User growth and retention 12:35 Expanding beyond crypto-native collectors 13:03 Beezie's move into luxury 14:48 How the luxury experience works 15:49 Vaulting and securing physical assets 16:17 Authenticating luxury goods 17:16 Why Beezie is selling “the chase” 18:14 The future of gamified commerce 19:19 What Beezie learned from sneakers 20:17 What's next for tokenized commerce 21:07 Bringing luxury buyers onchain 23:25 Building trust through authentication 27:23 What traditional collectibles markets get wrong 28:46 Why onchain transparency matters 29:36 Who is the future Beezie customer? 30:10 Andrea's advice for founders 30:38 Why Beezie chose Solana This episode is a part of the Solana Sessions campaign between Token Relations and the Talking Tokens podcast, diving into founders' journeys and startups building on Solana. Check out the accompanying newsletter on www.stratamedia.co/token-relations/solana  As part of the episode, we’re giving away one code for the fastest listener: LUX92244527. Head to solana.beezie.com/claw/Platinum-TCG-9 and sign up for an account, and apply the promo code for the premium Platinum TCG claw machine.   New episodes every week  https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141  Follow us  Jacquelyn on X: /jacqmelinek  Talking Tokens on X: /_talkingtokens  Talking Tokens on Instagram: /_talkingtokens  Follow Andrea Miele https://x.com/AndreaMYellie https://www.instagram.com/beeziedotcom/