
Most RWAs Are Built Wrong | Ayyan Rahman
In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Ayyan Rahman, co-founder and chief growth officer at OnRe, about why most real-world asset (RWA) projects in crypto are fundamentally misaligned with how DeFi actually works.Ayyan explains that tokenization alone isn’t enough and that many RWAs today function more like repackaged traditional finance than truly composable on-chain assets. He breaks down why this creates a risk of “Wall Street exit liquidity,” and what it actually takes to build an asset that integrates properly into DeFi systems.The conversation explores why reinsurance offers a unique source of uncorrelated yield, how tokenization can unlock more efficient capital scaling, and why liquidity, redemption mechanics, and risk modeling need to be rethought for on-chain markets.They also discuss the impact of Drift Protocol’s exploit on market confidence, what stress reveals about DeFi systems, why the idea of “risk-free yield” is flawed, and how institutional capital is evaluating onchain opportunities. The episode closes with a broader look at where crypto is heading from speculative markets toward more structured, resilient financial systems built around real assets.This episode is a part of the Solana Sessions campaign that Token Relations and the Talking Tokens podcast are doing, diving into founders’ journeys and startups building on Solana. Check out the accompanying newsletter on https://www.token-relations.com/investor-updates/all?network=Solana TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Introduction00:32 The Tokenization Illusion01:59 Tokenization vs Reality03:15 Why Reinsurance Actually Matters06:22 The Real Unlock: Scaling Capital09:05 Building a DeFi-Compatible Asset12:14 What Breaks DeFi Under Stress17:13 The Question That Actually Matters22:07 Redefining Risk in DeFi23:49 The Yield Trap29:06 Best Gameplan for Growth36:37 Where Adoption Actually Comes FromEpisodes air every Tuesday and Thursday on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, X and more.For more updates, subscribe to the Talking Tokens newsletter here: https://talkingtokens.beehiiv.com/ And follow us on X: Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Token Relations: https://twitter.com/Token_Relations This podcast is built by Token Relations.Please note that this podcast is for informational purposes only and any views shared by anyone on the show are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have a direct or indirect financial interest in content mentioned in this episode.
Most RWAs Are Built Wrong | Ayyan Rahman
Subscribe & Listen
More from Talking Tokens

Why Fomo Thinks Social Trading Is the Next Big Investing Shift
In today's episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn sits down with Se Yong Park , co-founder of Fomo, a social-first trading app with about 3 million users, to discuss how social media, blockchain and changing consumer behavior are reshaping how people discover and invest in financial markets. Se breaks down why Fomo abstracts away wallets, gas, bridges and chains, how the platform is reaching users outside traditional crypto channels, and why social trading could become a much bigger part of investing. They also discuss bringing more assets onchain, tokenized equities, transparent trading activity, creator-driven market discovery and how younger investors are approaching financial markets differently. Timestamps 00:00 Intro 01:33 How Fomo Reached Millions of Users 02:03 Why Se Yong Park Built Fomo 03:11 Making Investing Easier to Understand 03:48 Making Trades Public 05:03 What 3 Million Users Reveal About New Investors 05:48 Reaching People Outside Crypto 06:45 Why Fomo Targets Instagram and Social Audiences 07:06 Making Crypto Infrastructure Invisible 08:33 What Fomo Got Wrong About Consumer Behavior 09:28 Is Social Trading the Future? 11:35 What's Next for Fomo 12:30 How Social Media Is Changing Market Discovery 13:51 What Fomo Has Learned From Trader Behavior 14:38 Educating and Rewarding Users 16:03 Lessons From Building in Crypto 17:02 Competition and Growing the Onchain Market 17:40 Why Fomo Uses Blockchain 18:03 What Users Are Trading 19:47 How Much Are Users Trading With? 20:40 Security and Risk 21:31 Bringing More Assets Onchain 22:00 The Next Generation of Investors 22:48 Will AI Change Social Trading? 23:43 Se’s Advice for Crypto Founders 🔔 New episodes every week https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 🌐 Follow Jacquelyn Melinek https://x.com/jacqmelinek?lang=en https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacquelynmelinek ➡️ Follow Se Yong Park https://www.linkedin.com/in/se-yong-park-634782120 https://x.com/seyong #Fomo #SocialTrading #Crypto #OnchainFinance #Investing

What Could Take For Ethereum to Hit $10,000
In today's episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn sits down with Kevin Lepsoe, founder of ETHGas, to discuss how Ethereum could evolve into faster, more efficient financial infrastructure and what that could mean for institutions, DeFi and AI agents. Kevin Lepsoe breaks down ETHGas's vision for real-time Ethereum, why faster blockspace could bring liquidity back to the network, and the practical barriers institutions face when moving large amounts of capital onchain. They also discuss Ethereum's institutional comeback, why traditional credit relies on so many intermediaries, how smart contracts could reshape banking, and why AI agents may naturally gravitate toward DeFi as they begin transacting at machine speed. Timestamps 00:00 Intro 01:24 Ethereum's Institutional Shift 03:21 What's Still Missing From DeFi 05:43 Building Real-Time Ethereum 06:15 Why Blockspace Matters 07:21 What If Ethereum Were 100x Faster? 09:02 ETH as Strategic Infrastructure 11:51 Is Ethereum Having a Comeback? 13:19 ETHGas as Ethereum's “Supercharger” 14:40 Kevin's $10,000K ETH Thesis 16:43 Ethereum Treasury Companies 18:09 What Ethereum Needs Next 18:41 Bringing Institutional Capital Onchain 20:26 Why Institutions Want to Move Onchain 21:50 Can DeFi Cut Out Banking Middlemen? 23:54 What Institutions Want From Ethereum 25:40 AI Meets Onchain Finance 25:53 Why AI Agents Could Choose DeFi 27:15 Building Through Ethereum's Market Cycles 28:31 Ethereum's Decentralization Advantage 29:46 Where Ethereum Could Be in One Year 🔔 New episodes every week https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 🌐 Follow Jacquelyn Melinek https://x.com/jacqmelinek?lang=en https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacquelynmelinek ➡️ Follow Kevin Lepsoe https://x.com/lepsoe This episode is sponsored by Forgd, visit its Market Maker Leaderboard on Token Relations here: www.stratamedia.co/token-relations/leaderboard Today’s episode is sponsored by Anchorage Digital, America's first federally chartered digital asset bank and provider of regulated stablecoin issuance. To find out more, visit anchorage.com This episode is sponsored by Binance, the world’s number-one crypto exchange, trusted by over 300 million people. Discover more at: https://binance.onelink.me/y874/talkingtokens . NOTE: Binance is not available in certain countries, including the U.S.; check its Terms for more information: https://www.binance.com/en/terms #Ethereum #ETHGas #DeFi #OnchainFinance #ETH

How Injective Is Building Financial Markets Onchain
In today's episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn sits down with Eric Chen, co-founder and CEO of Injective Labs, the team behind the Injectivea blockchain built for financial applications, to discuss what comes next for tokenization, onchain finance and institutional adoption. Eric explains why simply tokenizing assets isn't enough, where he sees the biggest opportunities for bringing financial markets onchain, and how Injective is building infrastructure for advanced financial products. They also discuss RWA perpetual markets, tokenized stocks, capital formation, institutional adoption, AI agents and the future of blockchain & powered financial infrastructure. Timestamps 00:00 Intro 00:58 How Eric Chen Started Injective 03:07 Should Founders Still Drop Out of College? 05:27 Why AI Reminds Eric of Early Crypto 07:24 The Security Problem AI Can't Solve 09:27 Injective's Vision for Onchain Finance 11:21 Why Tokenization Is Accelerating 12:31 What Injective's Transfer Agent Registration Enables 14:32 $215M in RWA Perpetual Volume 16:33 Are Perpetual Markets the Future of RWAs? 17:52 Why Tokenizing Assets Isn't Enough 20:16 What's Moving Onchain Faster Than Expected 21:45 What Institutions Are Building on Injective 24:25 What Makes an Asset Useful Onchain? 27:21 Will Onchain Finance Compete With Banks? 27:52 Why Institutional Tokenization Is Accelerating 29:08 What Should Actually Move Onchain? 31:14 What Enterprises Want From Blockchain 33:48 Will Blockchain Become Invisible Infrastructure? 35:37 What Onchain Finance Could Look Like in 5–10 Years 37:26 What Injective Got Wrong 38:29 What Eric Is Watching Next 39:00 AI Agents Move From Analysis to Execution (timestamp needs verification) 41:27 What Eric Won't Trust AI With 41:40 Eric's Advice for Builders Today’s episode is sponsored by Anchorage Digital, America's first federally chartered digital asset bank and provider of regulated stablecoin issuance. To find out more, visit anchorage.com This episode is sponsored by Forgd, visit its Market Maker Leaderboard on Token Relations here: www.stratamedia.co/token-relations/leaderboard New episodes every week https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow Jacquelyn Jacquelyn on X: /jacqmelinek Talking Tokens on X: /_talkingtokens Talking Tokens on Instagram: /_talkingtokens Follow Eric Chen https://www.linkedin.com/in/eric-chen-b12255421 https://x.com/ericinjective?lang=en