Why Onchain Vaults Are Following Stablecoins Everywhere | Hunter Horsley
In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Hunter Horsley, co-founder and CEO of Bitwise Asset Management, about the firm’s launch of onchain vault strategies wiith Morpho and latest Q4 2025 corporate adoption report of bitcoin and ethereum as well as his outlook on digital asset treasuries. Hunter explains what vaults are, why they're following the adoption curve of stablecoins, and how they enable 4-6% yields, while investors maintain custody. He walks through Bitwise's expansion beyond ETFs into staking, options strategies, and DeFi vault curation, why institutions are going from "0 to 500 miles per hour" on crypto, and what the corporate bitcoin adoption numbers reveal. The conversation covers the “honeymoon phase” wearing off for treasury companies, the investor relations role DATs play in the ecosystem, why two-thirds of financial institutions will be in crypto within 6 months, and the shift from the "tell me era" to the "show me era" in institutional adoption.
TIMESTAMPS
(00:00) Intro (01:05) What are onchain vaults and why is everyone talking about them (02:04) Bitwise x Morpho vault announcement (02:32) Why people care about vaults: stablecoins parking and earning yield (03:00) Vaults following stablecoin adoption and doubled in assets last year (03:20) How institutional investors should think about vault risk vs traditional fixed income (05:10) Real world assets hitting $20 billion and stablecoins reaching $300 billion (05:35) Onchain lending rates differ from traditional bank rates (05:50) Why Bitwise is expanding beyond ETFs into onchain yield strategies (06:48) Major banks approving Bitwise ETFs in last 6 months (07:52) Bitwise staking several billion dollars for clients and running bitcoin options strategies (08:49) Building a team that managed $2 billion of DeFi strategies (09:42) Where vault opportunities are going as traditional firms enter the space (11:10) Massive fintechs integrating stablecoins and vaults by end of year (11:50) Q4 2025 corporate bitcoin adoption report key findings (13:00) 19 new public companies bought Bitcoin in Q4 (14:05) Figma put 4% of balance sheet into bitcoin through Bitwise ETF (15:30) His 9-minute call with an AI company that put bitcoin on the balance sheet (16:20) Ethereum holdings: Bitmain, SharpLink, and EtherMachine (16:50) Treasury companies post-honeymoon phase will look very different by year-end (18:05) Why the world doesn't need a million treasury companies (18:32) DATs and investor relations roles that crypto protocols lack (20:43) How many treasury companies can exist per major asset (22:07) Institutions buying more crypto AND becoming more crypto native (23:00) Moving from "tell me era" to "show me era" for crypto (24:50) Banks going from 0 to 500 miles per hour on crypto (26:23) Two-thirds of financial institutions will be in crypto within 6 months (26:49) January 2026 is the most bullish moment in Bitwise's 8 years
ESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.
Why Onchain Vaults Are Following Stablecoins Everywhere | Hunter Horsley
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How RockawayX Is Building the Actively Managed DeFi Vault | Samantha Bohbot
In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Samantha Bohbot, partner and chief growth officer at RockawayX, about why DeFi vaults have evolved from simple yield products into the foundation for actively managed, institutional-grade credit strategies. Samantha, who spent nearly four years as VP of growth at DCG before joining RockawayX, explains how the firm allocates over $2 billion across venture, liquid tokens, and onchain credit, and why it launched its own vaults on Morpho and Camino after spending years as one of the largest depositors into these products itself. She walks through what separates a serious vault from a commoditized one, why credit underwriting and risk infrastructure matter more than yield numbers, and how AI agents could reshape how capital flows into DeFi. The conversation also covers the Resolve exploit, why prediction markets are overhyped relative to actual usage, how to spot confirmation bias in crypto venture, and why building real financial infrastructure takes longer than a hackathon. TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro (01:14) Samantha's background at DCG and path to RockawayX (01:49) What RockawayX is: venture, liquid tokens, credit fund, and infrastructure (03:11) Why vaults are the next stage of the DeFi promise (05:24) How RockawayX differentiates its vault strategy from the crowd (07:22) Why credit underwriting and risk infrastructure are what separate real vaults (08:21) Why RockawayX decided to build vaults itself rather than wait (09:03) How the first RWA mixed pool works (13:37) Generative finance and how AI agents change vault UX and product fit (16:19) Embedding vaults into fintech products to reach non-crypto users (19:45) The Resolv exploit: how the attack worked and what curators got right (22:30) RockawayX's 2026 priorities and where to allocate time and resources (26:02) Why prediction markets are getting too much attention (27:14) Running a market-neutral strategy on Polymarket and its liquidity limits (33:16) Confirmation bias in crypto venture: pitching decks instead of businesses (40:09) OCC charters and the future of crypto banking regulation (42:37) Final advice: trust your gut on people and ideas You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.
Why Public Markets Are About to Move Onchain | Michael Tannenbaum
In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Michael Tannenbaum, CEO of Figure, about how the company processes over $1 billion in mortgages monthly and why it went public in 2025. Michael, who was first employee at Brex and chief revenue officer at SoFi before joining Figure in 2024, explains why the company tokenized its own stock first to prove the model works before approaching other issuers. He walks through Figure's 100% year-over-year growth with 50% margins by using blockchain tech to cut mortgage origination costs, why tokenization is now part of the buying criteria for capital markets, and the difference between creating liquidity versus just tokenizing assets. The conversation covers the Provenance blockchain, OPEN launch and demand, its DeFi marketplace, and why private credit needs institutional owners for long-term assets rather than retail investors. TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro (01:17) Career path: SoFi chief revenue officer, first employee at Brex, now Figure CEO (03:21) Why Michael bet on Brex (05:09) Reconnecting with Mike Cagney on Figure (08:41) His framework for building through crypto and fintech cycles (10:34) Figure's IPO timing and being publicly traded while building onchain markets (15:56) Why Figure tokenized its own stock first before approaching other companies (18:35) Liquidity in tokenization: just because you tokenize doesn't mean it's liquid (22:00) Launching with Figure’s own inventory to avoid guinea pig problem (23:26) What it means to have “hair on fire” problems (25:37) When to emphasize blockchain benefits versus meeting skeptics where they are (27:26) Breaking the rule of 40: 100% growth with 50% margins using blockchain technology (28:27) Revenue growth: 100% year-over-year across mortgages, stablecoins, and DeFi marketplace (33:11) Capital markets highway thesis: blockchain infrastructure not SaaS as next fintech model (46:26) Watching private credit nervousness around retail investor redemptions ESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.
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