Talking Tokens

Talking Tokens

Talking Tokens is a podcast focused on interviews with crypto leaders, startups, market participants, and up-and-coming founders changing the industry. Hosted by Jacquelyn Melinek, the show publishes on Tuesdays and Thursdays across YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, X, and more.

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What goes on behind $30B in tokenized assets | Jason Barraza

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What goes on behind $30B in tokenized assets | Jason Barraza

What goes on behind $30B in tokenized assets | Jason Barraza

In this episode of Talking Tokenization, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Jason Barraza, head of institutional business development at RedStone, about why blockchain oracles are evolving from simple price feeds into the institutional intelligence layer that tokenized finance still needs. Jason, who previously served as COO at Security Token Market where he helped track over 800 tokenized real world assets, explains how RedStone powers NAV feeds for BlackRock, Apollo, and Franklin Templeton, and why the firm's acquisition of Credora for onchain risk ratings is part of building a full-stack intelligence platform. He walks through why RWAs as DeFi collateral is the next big unlock and why the buy-build-or-lease question is splitting institutions into fundamentally different infrastructure strategies. The conversation covers why private credit is gaining so much attention, how Securitize’s Computershare partnership lowers barriers for corporates wanting to tokenize, and why standardization around compliance and portable identity is the key to scaling institutional adoption. This episode is sponsored by Securitize, the proven leader in tokenized funds, equities, and private markets. Discover more at securitize.io. TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro (01:36) What feels materially different from the last cycle (02:08) What RedStone does: oracles, risk ratings, and the institutional intelligence layer (03:13) Where oracle demand is highest right now: NAV feeds and RWAs as collateral (04:21) How Credora's risk ratings help institutions compare vaults yielding the same returns (05:16) DeFi exploits and how RWAs with transfer agents offer a safety net (07:27) Balancing speed and safety: co-creating solutions with institutions (08:49) What's coming in the next 6-18 months (10:12) Why vaults are gaining traction as streamlined fund infrastructure (12:12) Where institutional capital is being deployed today: money markets, stablecoins, and private credit (14:14) Tracking 800+ tokenized asset and what surprised him (16:01) Crypto native vs traditional institutions: the split in tokenization adoption (17:11) Buy, build, or lease: how institutions are choosing their tokenization infrastructure (20:31) What real institutional adoption looks like: full lifecycle onchain (22:10) Why collateral is the new conversation, not just tokenization for its own sake (24:40) Final advice to get educated and get on board ESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

SoFi Wants to Be the Stablecoin Liquidity Hub for Banks | Ben Reynolds

SoFi Wants to Be the Stablecoin Liquidity Hub for Banks | Ben Reynolds

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Ben Reynolds, SVP and head of Big Business Banking at SoFi, about why the company launched its SoFi USD stablecoin on Solana and what it means for the firm’s broader vision to become a stablecoin liquidity hub. Ben, who joined Silvergate in 2016 and helped build the Silvergate Exchange Network before the bank shut down in 2023, explains how commercial banks are finally building in the space now that the regulatory environment has changed under the current administration. He walks through why SoFiUSD reserves are held in a Fed master account with zero credit, liquidity, or duration risk and why stablecoin infrastructure is still far less mature than people think. He also explains how the next catalyst for onchain payments could come top down from banks with built-in network effects rather than bottoms up from crypto companies. The conversation covers why non-dollar stablecoins at scale would transform cross-border payments, how SoFi's 15 million users and card processing business create unique synergies, and why building stablecoin-agnostic infrastructure is the smartest strategy right now. This episode is a part of the Solana Sessions campaign that Token Relations and the Talking Tokens podcast are doing, diving into founders' journeys and startups building on Solana. Check out the accompanying newsletter on www.token-relations.com TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro (01:04) Ben's journey from: Silvergate in 2016 to joining SoFi six months ago (02:33) How commercial banks think about digital assets today vs 10 years ago (03:29) Launching SoFiUSD on Solana: cost, settlement speed, and throughput (04:30) Catalysts for onchain payments: non-dollar stablecoins, DeFi friction, and regulatory clarity (07:07) Stablecoin liquidity is overestimated: the emerging market conversion problem (08:07) Advice for big banks: build stablecoin-agnostic and understand the risk differences (09:26) Why SoFi USD reserves sit in a Fed master account (10:06) How Operation Choke Point 2.0 chilled bank building and why the environment is different now (10:44) Biggest realization at SoFi: how early stablecoins still are and how fast SoFi ships (12:18) The big vision: SoFi as the stablecoin liquidity hub for big business banking ESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

What Risk Frameworks are Needed for Institutional Adoption | Mike Silagadze & Joseph Chalom

What Risk Frameworks are Needed for Institutional Adoption | Mike Silagadze & Joseph Chalom

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Mike Silagadze, founder and CEO of EtherFi, and Joseph Chalom, CEO of SharpLink, following SharpLink’s deployment ofed $200 million of its $2 billion ether treasury into EtherFi in January and what the due diligence process actually looked like from both sides. Mike explains why EtherFi is building a ‘DeFi bank,’ an end-to-end self-custody alternative to traditional banking with hundreds of thousands of users and over $5 billion in deposits.Joseph, who spent two decades at BlackRock before joining SharpLink, walks through how his team hired people from Bridgewater and FalconX specifically to underwrite DeFi risk, why tail risk is still risk, and how its permanent capital gives SharpLink an advantage most crypto allocators don't have. The conversation covers why the recent wave of DeFi exploits could have been stopped with basic intervention tools, why stablecoin rails will be the main way crypto reaches the real economy, and tokenization growing as NYSE and Nasdaq opens for 24/7 trading. TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro (01:30) The relationship between EtherFi and SharpLink and why they work together (01:46) What EtherFi is building: the DeFi bank with $5-6 billion in deposits (02:24) SharpLink's $2 billion Ethereum treasury and why they deployed $200 million into EtherFi (03:38) Balancing speed and safety: why the DeFi risk playbook hasn't been written yet (05:28) Why institutions move slow deploying, but go fast when monitoring problems (07:25) How EtherFi approaches security: in-office teams, formal verification, and constant audits (08:26) Decentralization theater: why performative decentralization makes protocols less safe (09:17) Why EtherFi is building an emergency “red button” intervention system without compromising self-custody (10:53) How SharpLink's team underwrites DeFi risk (13:28) Why institutions are still in the first inning of DeFi adoption (17:28) How tokenized securities will unlock DeFi at a scale far beyond bitcoin and ether (22:11) Qualified custody with Anchorage and why ops alpha matters for institutional DeFi (23:09) What's next for EtherFi: global licensing and becoming a viable alternative to banks (25:56) Stablecoin rails as the main way crypto reaches the real economy (28:31) Tokenization about to expand as NYSE, Nasdaq, and DTCC opening up 24/7 (29:44) Final advice: stay safe, don't chase yield, and invest in young builders ESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

What's Overhyped, Underhyped, and Actually Happening in Crypto Right Now

What's Overhyped, Underhyped, and Actually Happening in Crypto Right Now

In this special episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek sits down with eight crypto leaders at an event in Miami hosted by StrataMedia alongside GSR and Alpaca for a rapid-fire mini interview series. Each guest is asked a similar set of questions: what their company is working on, how they describe the state of the crypto market, whether bearish sentiment is overhyped, what they would tokenize if they could tokenize anything, and what else they're paying attention to that listeners should be watching too. Guests include Asheesh Birla (CEO, Evernorth), Phil Fogel (CEO and co-founder, Cork Protocol), Neil Chopra (head of strategy and BD, Fireblocks), Scott Dykstra (co-founder and CTO, Space and Time), David Reising (founder and CEO, Lotus Protocol), Yoshi Yokokawa (co-founder and CEO, Alpaca), Tom Murphy (head of communications, Securitize), and Jakob Palmstierna (president, GSR). Answers range from wanting to tokenize chickens and avocados to entire balance sheets, and the through line is clear: institutions are here, the infrastructure is maturing, and the people still building through a tough market are the ones who will define what comes next. TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro (00:32) Asheesh Birla, CEO of Evernorth, on active XRP treasury management and tokenizing compute (05:48) Phil Fogel, CEO and co-founder of Cork Protocol, on risk infrastructure DeFi is still missing (12:08) Neil Chopra, head of strategy and BD at Fireblocks, on convergence of crypto native and traditional markets (18:10) Scott Dykstra, co-founder and CTO of Space and Time, on its new institutional Virtual Vvaults and decentralization after exploits (21:56) David Reising, founder and CEO of Lotus Protocol, on tranched lending and DeFi insurance (24:36) Yoshi Yokokawa, co-founder and CEO of Alpaca, on tokenization infrastructure and the paradigm shift ahead (28:11) Tom Murphy, head of communications at Securitize, on its new Jump and Jupiter partnership, Computershare announcement, and tokenized stocks (34:38) Jakob Palmstierna, president of GSR, on market structure evolution and tokenized equities trading 24/7 ESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

How Crypto Is Slowly Taking Over Wall Street Territory | Kevin Beardsley

How Crypto Is Slowly Taking Over Wall Street Territory | Kevin Beardsley

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek does an exclusive interview with Kevin Beardsley, the new head of institutional growth at Jito Foundation, in his first interview since announcing the role. Kevin, who previously held senior positions at Kraken and Ctrl Wallet, explains why institutions want Solana exposure but still struggle to actually use the technology, and how the 18-month education process behind every big institutional deal is invisible from the outside. He walks through the process of liquid staking tokens solving the trade-off between earning yield and maintaining capital efficiency, why crypto-native companies are increasingly taking territory from traditional banks rather than the other way around, and what Jito's institutional integrations with Anchorage, FalconX, and others actually look like in practice. The conversation also covers why meme coins created real perception damage for institutional adoption, the branding problem crypto still hasn't fixed, and why AI-enabled wallets are the next thing worth watching. TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro (00:33) How Xin defines tokenization (02:46) GSR's origin story as a market maker for Ripple's XRP in 2013 (06:00) How options evolved from a backwater to a core crypto market (09:12) The crypto gap GSR is trying to fill: building a full-service investment bank (14:29) Acquisitions of Architech and Autonomous and his bear market M&A thesis (17:27) Why the infrastructure bridge between traditional finance and onchain markets still needs work (21:24) Who tokenization actually serves: the underbanked, 24/7 traders, and AI agents (24:28) Will tokenized assets steal market share from bitcoin over time? (27:57) Stablecoin proliferation post-Genius Act and the yield pass-through debate (30:13) How GSR's role evolves as more real world assets get tokenized (33:49) Tokenized equities: wrapped vs issuer-led approaches and what's winning (41:17) Standard Chartered Ventures investment and what banking rails unlock for crypto (49:46) What Xin is watching: AI and blockchain intersection (52:07) Final advice: grit, patience, and keep building through the lows ESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

Tokenization Will Eat Capital Markets. Here's How. | Xin Song

Tokenization Will Eat Capital Markets. Here's How. | Xin Song

In this episode of Talking Tokenization, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Xin Song, CEO of GSR, about how the firm is evolving from a crypto market maker into a full-service digital asset investment bank. Xin, who started his career at BlackRock before later running his own crypto derivatives hedge fund and joining GSR in 2019, explains why tokenization will eat the capital markets world and why the firm acquired Architech and Autonomous to build end-to-end advisory, origination, and distribution capabilities. He walks through how GSR got its start as a market maker for Ripple, how options and prediction markets are converging to unlock new liquidity, and why the real tokenization opportunity is distributing fund products to crypto-native foundations rather than trying to bring traditional institutions onchain. The conversation covers the Standard Chartered Ventures investment and what banking rails unlock for crypto, why the wrapped equity model is winning over issuer-led approaches, and how he sees the current altcoin drawdown as worse than post-FTX - by some measures. This episode is sponsored by Securitize, the proven leader in tokenized funds, equities, and private markets. Discover more at securitize.io. TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro (00:33) How Xin defines tokenization (02:46) GSR's origin story as a market maker for Ripple's XRP in 2013 (06:00) How options evolved from a backwater to a core crypto market (09:12) The crypto gap GSR is trying to fill: building a full-service investment bank (14:29) Acquisitions of Architech and Autonomous and his bear market M&A thesis (17:27) Why the infrastructure bridge between traditional finance and onchain markets still needs work (21:24) Who tokenization actually serves: the underbanked, 24/7 traders, and AI agents (24:28) Will tokenized assets steal market share from bitcoin over time? (27:57) Stablecoin proliferation post-Genius Act and the yield pass-through debate (30:13) How GSR's role evolves as more real world assets get tokenized (33:49) Tokenized equities: wrapped vs issuer-led approaches and what's winning (41:17) Standard Chartered Ventures investment and what banking rails unlock for crypto (49:46) What Xin is watching: AI and blockchain intersection (52:07) Final advice: grit, patience, and keep building through the lows ESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

Talking Tokenization EXCLUSIVE: BlackRock Digital Assets Director Shares Strategy for Tokenization, Bitcoin Stablecoins, and More | Max Stein

Talking Tokenization EXCLUSIVE: BlackRock Digital Assets Director Shares Strategy for Tokenization, Bitcoin Stablecoins, and More | Max Stein

In this episode of Talking Tokenization, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Max Stein, a director on the digital assets team at BlackRock, about how the firm translates crypto and tokenization ideas into actual products, and why tokenized cash still has a long way to run. Max, who previously spent four years at ConsenSys and invested at Sino Global Capital before joining BlackRock, explains how the firm's tokenization work actually accelerated after the FTX collapse, and why its BUIDL fund was designed to prove that tokenization could be commercial rather than just a proof of concept. He walks through how BlackRock chose Securitize over other tokenization platforms, why stablecoins and tokenized money market funds are complementary as the payment and savings assets of crypto, and why the real growth driver for stablecoins will be non-crypto use cases. The conversation covers why DeFi exploits shook $15 billion out of lending markets and what that means for tokenized asset design, how AI agents may prefer onchain rails over traditional ones, and why privacy solutions will eventually be necessary for institutional scale. This episode is sponsored by Securitize, the proven leader in tokenized funds, equities, and private markets. Discover more at securitize.io. TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro (01:18) How Max defines tokenization and his role at BlackRock (01:40) How BlackRock goes from idea to product in digital assets (03:16) Regulatory environment and how it affects the pace of product development (05:21) Stablecoins at BlackRock: reserve management and internal use (06:17) Why BlackRock chose Securitize and how BUIDL was designed (07:54) How the FTX collapse actually accelerated BlackRock's tokenization work (08:54) Why tokenized cash is still the biggest opportunity (14:09) The shift from private chains to public networks and the hybrid model (22:17) Stablecoins as utility: programmable money, flash loans, and same-rail settlement (27:36) His thoughts on DeFi exploits, contagion, and what it means for tokenized asset design (33:13) How AI agents may prefer onchain rails and accelerate crypto adoption (38:50) Final advice: small decisions shape whether a product scales or sits on a shelf ESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

Inside PayPal’s Bet on Stablecoins | May Zabaneh

Inside PayPal’s Bet on Stablecoins | May Zabaneh

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with May Zabaneh, SVP and GM of Crypto at PayPal, about why today’s payment systems still suffer from hidden inefficiencies and how stablecoins are emerging as the next layer of financial infrastructure. May explains that while payments today work, they remain slow, costly, and fragmented especially across borders. She breaks down how stablecoins enable faster, cheaper, and more flexible global transactions, and why their real impact may come not from user-facing products, but backend rails powering money movement. The conversation explores what “programmable money” actually means, how agent-driven commerce could automate transactions, and why simplicity and trust are the biggest barriers to adoption. Maye also shares where stablecoins are already working at scale, from peer-to-peer payments to global payouts and how businesses benefit from faster settlement and improved capital efficiency. They also discuss generational shifts in crypto adoption, the role of stablecoins in emerging markets, and why access to stable currency is becoming increasingly important globally. The episode closes with how PayPal is approaching the space differently: focusing on PYUSD distribution, real-world usage, and integrating stablecoins into everyday financial systems. TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Introduction (02:13) PayPal’s Hidden Advantage in Crypto (04:38) Payments Are “Easy”… But Still Messy (07:34) The Real Stablecoin Unlock: Cross-Border Efficiency (10:49) Paypal’s outlook on Stablecoins (13:21) Forgd Ad (13:46) The Inflection Point With: Programmable Money (15:54) The First Real Use Case of Agents + Payments (20:57) The Trust Barrier (And How It Breaks) (24:59) The Business Case For: Margins, Speed, and Survival (26:49) The Endgame: Invisible Financial Infrastructure (28:02) PayPal vs The Broader Stablecoin Market ESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

Why Crypto Token Launches Are Broken and How to Fix Them | Shane Molidor

Why Crypto Token Launches Are Broken and How to Fix Them | Shane Molidor

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Shane Molidor, founder and CEO of Forgd, about why token launches keep failing and what it would actually take to fix them. Shane, who previously led trading desks at Gemini, AscendEX, and FBG Capital before founding Forgd, explains why the structural gaps that bull markets used to hide are now fully exposed, and why founders, VCs, and public sale participants are all down bad as a result. He breaks down how IPOs are engineered with book building and underwriters while crypto launches rely on hope, retail speculation, and market makers that overpromise and underdeliver.He walks through how Forgd's free-to-use benchmarking tool tracks over 600 market maker engagements across 35+ desks, why data-driven RFQs are replacing voice brokerage, and how the exchange listing decision between Binance and OKEx can meaningfully change the shape of a token's chart. The conversation covers why institutional demand for new launches is near zero, why active market making is a glorified pump and dump, and what a fundamental shift to fundraising and book building would actually look like. TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro (01:06) State of token launches four months after crypto’s all-time highs (02:03) Structural gaps bull markets hide: who is getting hurt and how (05:23) Why IPOs are engineered and crypto launches are improvised (06:56) Should crypto adopt IPO-style book building and will it happen (08:41) Is now a good time to launch a token? The double-edged sword argument (10:27) Tools Forgd is seeing increased demand for right now (12:30) How Forgd’s benchmarking tool works: 600 engagements, 35+ market makers (15:43) How reputation plays into market maker selection and what changes it (17:46) Why data-driven RFQs are replacing legacy voice brokerage (21:39) Why Shane built Forgd after running a trading desk and seeing the gap firsthand (26:51) Top performing market makers on the leaderboard right now (29:35) How founders say the historical data has changed their decision making (30:43) Forgd’s 2026 roadmap: exchange listing tools, tokenomics simulations, and AI (33:40) Exchange listing strategy: what the data says about Binance vs OKEx vs Coinbase (39:30) How institutional demand for new launches has collapsed and what teams are doing instead (42:22) What the actual solution looks like: rethinking fundraising and book building (44:57) Final advice: use data, not gut instinct, when selecting market makersEpisodes air every Tuesday and Thursday on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, X and more. For more updates, subscribe to the Talking Tokens newsletter here: https://talkingtokens.beehiiv.com/ And follow us on X: Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Token Relations: https://twitter.com/Token_Relations This podcast is built by Token Relations. Please note that this podcast is for informational purposes only and any views shared by anyone on the show are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have a direct or indirect financial interest in content mentioned in this episode.

Most RWAs Are Built Wrong | Ayyan Rahman

Most RWAs Are Built Wrong | Ayyan Rahman

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Ayyan Rahman, co-founder and chief growth officer at OnRe, about why most real-world asset (RWA) projects in crypto are fundamentally misaligned with how DeFi actually works.Ayyan explains that tokenization alone isn’t enough and that many RWAs today function more like repackaged traditional finance than truly composable on-chain assets. He breaks down why this creates a risk of “Wall Street exit liquidity,” and what it actually takes to build an asset that integrates properly into DeFi systems.The conversation explores why reinsurance offers a unique source of uncorrelated yield, how tokenization can unlock more efficient capital scaling, and why liquidity, redemption mechanics, and risk modeling need to be rethought for on-chain markets.They also discuss the impact of Drift Protocol’s exploit on market confidence, what stress reveals about DeFi systems, why the idea of “risk-free yield” is flawed, and how institutional capital is evaluating onchain opportunities. The episode closes with a broader look at where crypto is heading from speculative markets toward more structured, resilient financial systems built around real assets.This episode is a part of the Solana Sessions campaign that Token Relations and the Talking Tokens podcast are doing, diving into founders’ journeys and startups building on Solana. Check out the accompanying newsletter on https://www.token-relations.com/investor-updates/all?network=Solana TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Introduction00:32 The Tokenization Illusion01:59 Tokenization vs Reality03:15 Why Reinsurance Actually Matters06:22 The Real Unlock: Scaling Capital09:05 Building a DeFi-Compatible Asset12:14 What Breaks DeFi Under Stress17:13 The Question That Actually Matters22:07 Redefining Risk in DeFi23:49 The Yield Trap29:06 Best Gameplan for Growth36:37 Where Adoption Actually Comes FromEpisodes air every Tuesday and Thursday on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, X and more.For more updates, subscribe to the Talking Tokens newsletter here: https://talkingtokens.beehiiv.com/ And follow us on X: Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Token Relations: https://twitter.com/Token_Relations This podcast is built by Token Relations.Please note that this podcast is for informational purposes only and any views shared by anyone on the show are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have a direct or indirect financial interest in content mentioned in this episode.

Crypto Is Built on a Broken Internet | Tom Warner

Crypto Is Built on a Broken Internet | Tom Warner

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Tom Warner, head of BD at DoubleZero, about why crypto is fundamentally limited by the public internet and how a new high-performance network layer could change everything. Tom explains how blockchains like Solana are hitting a performance ceiling not because of the chains themselves, but because of the infrastructure they run on. He breaks down how traditional finance firms rely on private, ultra-fast networks, why crypto has never had access to that level of connectivity, and how DoubleZero is building a decentralized alternative using subsea cables and high-performance routing. The conversation covers the launch of DoubleZero Edge, a real-time market data distribution platform designed to level the playing field for traders, why predictable latency matters more than raw speed, and how crypto still lags behind Wall Street in execution reliability. Tom also explains Solana “shreds” through a simple analogy, how multicast technology changes data distribution, and why inconsistent transaction timing is one of the biggest barriers to institutional capital. They also explore the future of 24/7 markets, the convergence of DeFi and traditional finance, the growing tension between banks and stablecoins, and what still needs to happen before crypto becomes the dominant financial system. 00:00 Introduction 00:33 What is Double Zero? 01:18 The Internet Is Slowing Crypto Down 02:47 The Hidden Network War You Never See 04:56 Solana’s Bottleneck Isn’t What You Think 06:35 What DoubleZero Edge Changes 10:22 This Analogy Explains Everything 19:16 Crypto Still Can’t Compete With Wall Street 23:32 What Happens When Markets Never Close 26:14 What’s Still Holding Crypto Back 31:52 Banks vs Stablecoins Is Just Getting Started 33:31 Where the Real Opportunities Are You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

Why Bitcoin Really Exists | Matt Luongo and Arthur Hayes

Why Bitcoin Really Exists | Matt Luongo and Arthur Hayes

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Matt Luongo, co-founder of Mezo, and Arthur Hayes, CIO of Maelstrom and co-founder of BitMEX, about why they see bitcoin as the best collateral ever created and what it means to build a financial system on top of it. Matt explains how Mezo is rebuilding banking on bitcoin by letting holders borrow against their BTC rather than spend it, and why the lending market that blew up last cycle is now being rebuilt onchain with better infrastructure. Arthur shares why he treats bitcoin purely as a liquidity barometer, why governments will always choose to print rather than accept consequences, and why that makes bitcoin the only rational long-term savings asset. The two walk through what sustainable bitcoin yield actually looks like versus the token-printing schemes that failed in the last cycle and how institutions holding bitcoin on their balance sheet are deploying it. The conversation also covers Arthur's personal philosophy on leverage, Matt's experience financing his house with bitcoin, and why both guests believe people shouldn’t sell your BTC, just borrow against it. Arthur Hayes: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/cryptohayes/ LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/arthur-hayes-b493b42/ Substack - https://cryptohayes.substack.com/ Web: https://www.cryptohayes.com X - https://x.com/cryptohayes Maelstrom Fund: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/maelstromfund Web - https://www.maelstrom.fund X - https://x.com/maelstromfund TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro (01:37) Why Matt built Mezo and what drew Arthur in with his big picture thesis (02:23) Arthur on Maelstrom, his family office, and why bitcoin needs to be useful (03:16) The state of bitcoin in 2026 (05:57) Bitcoin as a liquidity alarm: why it rises and falls with global money printing (08:47) Governments choosing bailouts over consequences, and how bitcoin can win (15:04) How to think about risk before going max long bitcoin (20:39) What macro patterns Arthur and Matt actually track (23:41) What sustainable bitcoin yield looks like versus token-printing schemes (25:24) Why a lot of bitcoin holders have never had access to standard DeFi (32:36) How institutions with BTC on their balance sheet are thinking about yield today (34:26) Why every DeFi exploit sets institutional adoption back and what changes that (37:03) Bitcoin as collateral: what it actually unlocks for holders (38:25) How Matt and Arthur each got into crypto (44:41) Is it too late to buy bitcoin? The conversations people are actually having now (45:55) Market outlook and price predictions ESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

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