Most RWAs Are Built Wrong | Ayyan Rahman
In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Ayyan Rahman, co-founder and chief growth officer at OnRe, about why most real-world asset (RWA) projects in crypto are fundamentally misaligned with how DeFi actually works.Ayyan explains that tokenization alone isn’t enough and that many RWAs today function more like repackaged traditional finance than truly composable on-chain assets. He breaks down why this creates a risk of “Wall Street exit liquidity,” and what it actually takes to build an asset that integrates properly into DeFi systems.The conversation explores why reinsurance offers a unique source of uncorrelated yield, how tokenization can unlock more efficient capital scaling, and why liquidity, redemption mechanics, and risk modeling need to be rethought for on-chain markets.They also discuss the impact of Drift Protocol’s exploit on market confidence, what stress reveals about DeFi systems, why the idea of “risk-free yield” is flawed, and how institutional capital is evaluating onchain opportunities. The episode closes with a broader look at where crypto is heading from speculative markets toward more structured, resilient financial systems built around real assets.This episode is a part of the Solana Sessions campaign that Token Relations and the Talking Tokens podcast are doing, diving into founders’ journeys and startups building on Solana. Check out the accompanying newsletter on https://www.token-relations.com/investor-updates/all?network=Solana TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Introduction00:32 The Tokenization Illusion01:59 Tokenization vs Reality03:15 Why Reinsurance Actually Matters06:22 The Real Unlock: Scaling Capital09:05 Building a DeFi-Compatible Asset12:14 What Breaks DeFi Under Stress17:13 The Question That Actually Matters22:07 Redefining Risk in DeFi23:49 The Yield Trap29:06 Best Gameplan for Growth36:37 Where Adoption Actually Comes FromEpisodes air every Tuesday and Thursday on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, X and more.For more updates, subscribe to the Talking Tokens newsletter here: https://talkingtokens.beehiiv.com/ And follow us on X: Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Token Relations: https://twitter.com/Token_Relations This podcast is built by Token Relations.Please note that this podcast is for informational purposes only and any views shared by anyone on the show are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have a direct or indirect financial interest in content mentioned in this episode.
Most RWAs Are Built Wrong | Ayyan Rahman
Subscribe & Listen
More from Talking Tokens
Why Banks Risk More by Ignoring Stablecoins
In today's episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn sits down with Sergio Mello, Global Head of Digital Asset Infrastructure, and Kevin Wysocki, Head of Policy at Anchorage Digital, to discuss why stablecoins are moving deeper into the institutional financial system and what banks need to build for the next phase of adoption. They explore why institutions are shifting from asking if they should participate to how and when, whether stablecoins could become a global settlement layer, why every bank could eventually become a digital asset bank, and how tokenization, stablecoins, and AI banking could converge into a fundamentally different financial system. Timestamps 00:00 Intro 00:34 What Changed for Institutional Crypto? 02:34 Why Banks Need to Start Building Now 05:16 The Second Era of Stablecoins 07:42 The Risk of Ignoring Stablecoins 08:56 TradFi and Crypto Are Converging 10:02 Stablecoins vs. Tokenization 13:02 The Trillion-Dollar Tokenized Money Opportunity 13:38 What GENIUS Could Unlock for Banks 16:10 Stablecoins and Dollar Dominance 18:28 Could Other Currencies Move Onchain? 20:06 When Stablecoins Become Normal Financial Infrastructure 21:37 Are Stablecoins Inevitable? 23:13 Anchorage Digital's Role in Stablecoin Infrastructure 26:57 Will Every Bank Become a Digital Asset Bank? 30:29 Why “Tomorrow Is Late” 30:59 What's Slowing Institutional Adoption? 34:07 When Stablecoins Become Invisible 35:45 Stablecoins Meet AI Banking 36:45 What Happens When Everything Connects? 38:17 What Comes Next for Crypto Regulation? 39:59 The Invisible Future of Onchain Finance Today’s episode is sponsored by Anchorage Digital, America's first federally chartered digital asset bank and provider of regulated stablecoin issuance. To find out more, visit anchorage.com This episode is sponsored by Binance, the world’s number-one crypto exchange, trusted by over 300 million people. Discover more at: https://binance.onelink.me/y874/talkingtokens . NOTE: Binance is not available in certain countries, including the U.S.; check its Terms for more information: https://www.binance.com/en/terms New episodes every week https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow Jacquelyn Melinek https://x.com/jacqmelinek?lang=en https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacquelynmelinek Follow Sergio & Kevin https://x.com/sergiofly?lang=en https://x.com/KevWysocki #Stablecoins #AnchorageDigital #Tokenization #DigitalAssets #TalkingTokens
Talking Tokens | Inside the Future of Onchain Finance
Talking Tokens goes beyond the headlines to explore the people, ideas, and infrastructure shaping the onchain economy. Hosted by Jacquelyn Melinek, founder and CEO of StrataMedia and former senior crypto reporter at TechCrunch, Talking Tokens brings you twice-weekly conversations with founders, investors, market makers, institutional leaders, and experts across digital assets and traditional finance. From crypto and DeFi to stablecoins, tokenization, institutional adoption, and the convergence of TradFi and onchain finance, we break down where money is moving, what’s gaining real traction, what’s mostly hype, and what could reshape the future of finance. New episodes every week https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow Jacquelyn Melinek https://x.com/jacqmelinek?lang=en https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacquelynmelinek #TalkingTokens #OnchainFinance #Crypto #DigitalAssets #DeFi
What Actually Makes a Crypto Token Investable?
In today's episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn sits down with Shane Molidor, founder and CEO of Forgd, and Ryan Celaj, head of research at DeFiLlama, to discuss how better data and transparency could change the way crypto assets are evaluated. They break down the Universal Token Ratings (UTR), why TVL and volume alone don't tell the full story, and how disclosures, liquidity, market structure and market maker performance can provide more context around a token. They also explore what institutional investors expect from crypto projects, why ratings need to evolve in real time, and whether better transparency could create a new standard for the industry. Timestamps 00:00 Intro 00:26 Why Crypto Needed a Market Maker Leaderboard 02:04 Bringing Forgd Data to DeFiLlama 03:51 What Makes a Good Market Maker? 05:25 Why Market Makers Overpromise 07:37 How Market Makers Perform Across Market Cycles 11:58 Building More Transparency Into Crypto 13:23 Introducing Universal Token Ratings 14:22 Are TVL and Volume Enough? 17:37 Building a “Moody’s for Crypto” 20:58 Performance vs. Transparency 23:29 Is Crypto Returning to Fundamentals? 25:33 Why Token Ratings Need to Change in Real Time 28:23 What Happens When Projects Don’t Disclose Enough? 31:12 What Makes a Crypto Asset Investable? 33:17 How Investors Can Use UTR 35:28 Could Ratings Change How Token Projects Behave? 37:09 What UTR Means for Institutional Investors 39:12 What Institutions Expect From Crypto Projects 41:40 Expanding Beyond 170 Rated Tokens 43:06 Could UTR Become a New Crypto Standard? 44:55 Can Token Ratings Reveal Alpha? New episodes every week https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow Jacquelyn Melinek https://x.com/jacqmelinek?lang=en https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacquelynmelinek Follow Shane & Ryan https://x.com/MolidorShane?lang=en https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryan-celaj This episode is sponsored by Forgd, visit its Market Maker Leaderboard on Token Relations here: www.stratamedia.co/token-relations/leaderboard Check out the Universal Token Rating platform on DeFiLlama: https://defillama.com/universal-token-rating Today’s episode is sponsored by Anchorage Digital, America's first federally chartered digital asset bank and provider of regulated stablecoin issuance. To find out more, visit anchorage.com This episode is sponsored by Binance, the world’s number-one crypto exchange, trusted by over 300 million people. Discover more at: https://binance.onelink.me/y874/talkingtokens . NOTE: Binance is not available in certain countries, including the U.S.; check its Terms for more information: https://www.binance.com/en/terms #DeFiLlama #Crypto #TokenRatings #CryptoResearch #TalkingTokens