Why Price Discovery Will Move Onchain Within 3 Years | Saeed Badreg
In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Saeed Badreg, CEO of Wormhole Labs, about how the incubated Sunrise project helps asset issuers gain distribution and reach users across blockchains, with a particular focus on the Solana ecosystem. Saeed explains why the team built Sunrise as a turnkey solution for projects struggling to penetrate closed blockchain ecosystems, and how Wormhole's Native Token Transfer (NTT) framework enables assets to move across chains without wrapped tokens or fragmented liquidity. He walks through the difference between wrapped and native tokens, why provenance and trust matter more than marketing terminology, and how Sunrise launched with Monad's MON token, among others, to provide day-one liquidity on Solana. The conversation covers why global institutions are accelerating crypto adoption faster than expected, how countries are modeling regulatory frameworks after the US Genius Act and pending Clarity Act, when price discovery for major assets will move onchain, and Saeed's three-part framework for evaluating teams.This episode is a part of the Solana Sessions campaign that Token Relations and the Talking Tokens podcast are doing, diving into founders’ journeys and startups building on Solana. Check out the accompanying newsletter on www.token-relations.com
TIMESTAMPS
(00:00) Intro (01:49) What Sunrise is and how it helps asset issuers with distribution (02:40) Pain points preventing non-native tokens from creating great trading markets on other chains (03:00) What distribution means for asset issuers across blockchain ecosystems (04:08) Why Solana is hard to penetrate, despite being the second biggest blockchain (04:46) How Sunrise provides turnkey solutions for reaching Solana's user base and enabling free flow of capital (06:01) Why Wormhole cares about economic activity in crypto in aggregate (06:23) Wrapped versus native tokens and why provenance matters more than marketing speak (07:11) Who controls assets on different blockchains and trust in intermediaries (08:14) How Wormhole's Native Token Transfer framework works (09:38) Why liquidity fragmentation is the challenge for tokens bridging across chains (11:06) Sunrise solving distribution, go-to-market, and technical challenges (12:34) Monad's MON token as Sunrise's first major launch (14:21) Why centralized exchanges still dominate price discovery today (16:02) When liquidity onchain will compete with centralized venues (17:35) How Wormhole measures success and adoption (19:43) Regulatory environment improving and institutional adoption accelerating globally (21:58) Countries modeling crypto regulation after the US Genius Act (24:06) Building for volatility and focusing on 1-2 year product roadmaps (26:37) Wormhole's technology solving real problems for customers (28:44) Vision for assets, liquidity, and markets to move freely across ecosystems (30:52) Expansion plans for Sunrise beyond crypto to commodities, stocks, and RWAs (33:00) How Saeed's vision evolved since becoming CEO in 2023 (34:35) Surprising pace of global institutional adoption over the past year (36:20) What Saeed is focused on in 2026 (36:41) Timeline for price discovery moving onchain: within three years (38:15) Three-part framework for evaluating teams: technical soundness, go-to-market acumen, and understanding financial markets ESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.
Why Price Discovery Will Move Onchain Within 3 Years | Saeed Badreg
Subscribe & Listen
Why Bitcoin’s Price Isn’t Affecting Institutional Interest in Tokenization | Thomas Cowan
Why Bitcoin-Backed Lending Will Reach $200 Billion | Sid Powell
More from Talking Tokens
The 4 Things That Need to Happen Before AI Agents Can Actually Spend Money | An Agentic Payments Explainer
On our first episode of Strata Research presented by Talking Tokens & Token Relations, Jacquelyn sits down with Institutional Research Analyst Alex Beaudry to breakdown agentic payments. Alex walks through why it isn't one market but three distinct payment flows, each with completely different infrastructure requirements, and why the machine-to-machine category is where stablecoins have a real structural edge over traditional rails. They also get into the four things that actually need to happen before this market scales, and why the narrative is still running well ahead of the transaction volumes to back it up. Check out the associated newsletter for more details: https://www.token-relations.com/p/agentic-payments-where-we-are-and-where-we-re-going TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Introduction Strata Research 01:24 Understanding Agentic Payments 04:54 The Flows of Agentic Payments 07:24 Challenges and Frameworks for Scaling 11:39 Recent Developments and Future Outlook You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn: / jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: / _talkingtokens Follow us on Instagram / _talkingtokens Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.
USDT0's Co-Founder on Moving $90B Cross-Chain, the Agent Economy, and Tether's Untouchable Moat
On today's Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn sits down with Lorenzo Romagnoli, co-founder of USDT0, a stablecoin protocol that has moved over $90 billion in USDT across 25+ blockchains since launching in January 2025. Lorenzo makes the case that stablecoins were not just built for Americans or Europeans but for people in emerging markets across Africa, Latin America, and Asia who needed a way out of crushing inflation, and explains why that's the core reason Tether's dominance is so hard to compete with. They also get into what it will actually take for AI agents to transact onchain at scale, and why Lorenzo believes the teams still building with true decentralization in mind are the ones worth watching. TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Introduction to USDT Zero and Its Founders 02:31 The Evolution of USDT and Decentralized Finance 05:36 Understanding the Mechanics of USDT Zero 08:33 User Behavior and Volume Trends 11:34 Tether's Role in the Global Financial Ecosystem 15:38 Targeting Emerging Markets with Stablecoins 18:45 The Competitive Landscape of Stablecoins 21:12 The Future of Stablecoins 24:05 Global Adoption and Use Cases 27:32 The Rise of USDT and Market Dynamics 30:11 Innovation and Staying Ahead 34:23 The Role of Decentralization in Finance 39:45 Advice for Future Innovators You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn: / jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: / _talkingtokens Follow us on Instagram / _talkingtokens Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.
What You Need To Know About x402 And How It Impacts Payments | Erik Reppel
In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Erik Reppel, head of engineering at Coinbase Developer Platform and creator of x402., They discuss why the internet struggled without a native payment protocol and why AI agents finally made the problem urgent enough to solve. Erik explains how x402 lets computers send money as easily as they send data, and why Visa, Mastercard, and others are all founding members of its x402 Foundation. He walks through why the 402 HTTP status code was reserved for "payment required" but left empty for decades, how publishers can now charge AI agents with micropayments instead of losing traffic to scraping, and why agents with wallets are fundamentally more useful than agents without them. The conversation covers why stablecoins are uniquely suited for low-dollar transactions, how Coinbase uses AI internally to make every engineer 3x more productive, and why the best infrastructure eventually becomes invisible. TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro (01:25) Why AI becoming an economic actor made the internet's missing payment layer urgent (03:21) What x402 actually is (05:14) How x402 works like HTTP but for money and with any client, server, or payment (06:26) What Erik wants people to build with x402: new business models beyond ads and subscriptions (08:31) Who is already using x402: CoinGecko, Messari, a16z, and agent native publishers (09:56) Why the 402 status code sat empty for decades (11:15) Where x402 stands today: 15+ chains, stablecoins first, credit cards next (12:50) Why Visa and Mastercard joined the x402 Foundation (15:41) Biggest use cases right now (17:16) Are AI agents good traders? Why wallets for payments matter more than wallets for trading (19:17) What needs to happen for AI agents to participate more meaningfully onchain (21:44) Do AI agents understand value? Economic reasoning and budget awareness (23:22) Long-term vision for x402 (26:40) Final advice: play positive sum games with positive people ESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.