Talking Tokens

Talking Tokens

Talking Tokens is a podcast focused on interviews with crypto leaders, startups, market participants, and up-and-coming founders changing the industry. Hosted by Jacquelyn Melinek, the show publishes on Tuesdays and Thursdays across YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, X, and more.

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Why Aave V4 Is Built Like a Central Bank for DeFi | Stani Kulechov

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Why Aave V4 Is Built Like a Central Bank for DeFi | Stani Kulechov

Why Aave V4 Is Built Like a Central Bank for DeFi | Stani Kulechov

On today's Talking Tokens, we're sharing Jacquelyn’s Proof of Talk chat with Stani Kulechov, founder and CEO of Aave Labs, to break down why Aave V4 moved away from a single monolithic protocol toward a hub and spoke model that works more like a central bank. Stani gets into why a lot of centralized lenders didn't hold up through both the FTX collapse and last October's market unwind. Then Stani explains why he thinks the next real growth phase for DeFi comes from financing things like AI infrastructure, tokenized equity, and credit for businesses that have never had access to capital this efficient before. TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Introduction to Aave and Stani Kulechov 03:09 Evolution from Aave V3 to Aave V4 06:03 Risk Management in DeFi 08:45 Building Network Resilience 11:58 Aave V4 and Corporate Treasury Management 14:48 Tokenized Assets and Aave Horizon 18:11 Institutional Interest in Tokenization 20:52 Mainstream Adoption of DeFi 24:02 Future Vision for Aave You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn: / jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: / _talkingtokens Follow us on Instagram / _talkingtokens Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

Why MoneyGram Built Its Own Stablecoin Instead of Using Someone Else's | Anthony Soohoo, MoneyGram

Why MoneyGram Built Its Own Stablecoin Instead of Using Someone Else's | Anthony Soohoo, MoneyGram

On today's Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn sits down with MoneyGram CEO Anthony Soohoo to talk about MGUSD, the company's new dollar-backed stablecoin built on Stellar with help from Bridge, Fireblocks, and M0. Anthony explores why launching MoneyGram decided to have its own stablecoin and breaks down how its 60 million active customers and nearly 500,000 retail locations across 200 countries play a role in it. Jacquelyn and Anthony also discuss why the real winners in this space might be the ones who make stablecoins disappear into the background entirely and how the asset can have a dual role in finance. TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Introduction to MGUSD and MoneyGram's Vision 03:04 The Complexity of Cross-Border Payments 06:31 Leveraging Existing Infrastructure for Adoption 10:15 The Role of Cash in a Digital Future 12:35 Stablecoins as a Preferred Payment Method 14:09 Self-Custody and User Education 18:22 The Future of Stablecoins and Consumer Adoption 21:33 Navigating Regional Differences in Adoption 24:07 Stablecoins vs. Traditional Banking 25:52 Choosing the Right Partners for MGUSD 28:40 The Dual Role of Stablecoins in Finance 31:21 Lessons from the Crypto Industry 34:51 Advice for Success in the Financial Space You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn: / jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: / _talkingtokens Follow us on Instagram / _talkingtokens Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

Why Every Institution Should Be Staking ETH | Kean Gilbert, Lido

Why Every Institution Should Be Staking ETH | Kean Gilbert, Lido

On today's Talking Tokenization, Jacquelyn sits down with Kean Gilbert, Head of Institutional Relations at the Lido Ecosystem Foundation, to talk about how liquid staking is finally breaking into traditional finance. From the WisdomTree staked ETH ETP in Europe to VanEck's recently filed S-1 for a Lido staked ETF in the US, Kean breaks down why institutions are asking sharper questions than ever before, how depth of liquidity is the single biggest driver behind Lido winning institutional mandates, and why he sees there's no good reason to hold unstaked ETH when you can get the same exposure with 3%. TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Introduction to Lido 03:00 Growth of Ethereum Staking and Institutional Interest 05:59 Understanding DAO Structures and Institutional Education 09:05 Tokenization and Its Impact on the Industry 11:58 The Role of Custodians in Institutional Crypto 14:58 Risk Management in Staking and Smart Contracts 17:56 The Role of Staking in Current Markets 19:04 Integration of Staking with Traditional Finance 20:04 Regional Perspectives on Staking Adoption 21:55 Timeline for Global Adoption of Staking 22:22 Market Outlook and Building in Bear Cycles 24:43 ETF Interest and Market Dynamics 25:54 The Importance of Retail in Staking 27:17 Unlocking the Next Wave of Adoption 28:56 Impact of Tokenization on Business Operations 30:41 The Evolution of Institutional Conversations 33:40 Long-Term Thinking in Crypto You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn: / jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: / _talkingtokens Follow us on Instagram / _talkingtokens Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

From the Federal Reserve to Circle: What Most People Are Getting Wrong About Onchain Finance | Gordon Liao

From the Federal Reserve to Circle: What Most People Are Getting Wrong About Onchain Finance | Gordon Liao

On today's Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn sits down with Gordon Liao, Chief Economist and Head of Research at Circle, to talk about why traditional financial plumbing is still the biggest bottleneck in money movement globally. We discuss Arc, Circle's new institutional blockchain, which is being built from the ground up to handle everything from agentic nano payments to quantum-resistant encryption. Gordon believes that Arc being quantum-ready from day one isn't just a nice-to-have but a decision that could define whether the network and its users survives the next decade of security threats. Gordon also breaks down the three things he thinks the market is underestimating right now and how 99.5% of x402 payment protocol volume is already running through Circle’s USDC. TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Introduction to Gordon and His Background 02:45 The Future of Onchain Finance 05:56 USDC and Its Market Position 08:54 Agentic Commerce and AI Integration 11:57 The Launch of Arc and Its Vision 15:00 Challenges in Blockchain Adoption 17:55 Privacy and Security in Blockchain 20:57 Quantum Computing and Its Implications 24:10 Market Perspectives and Economic Insights 30:02 Final Thoughts and Advice You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn: / jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: / _talkingtokens Follow us on Instagram / _talkingtokens Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

Taking Crypto Mainstream with Nostalgia & Creative Marketing | Dakota Campbell, Collector Crypt

Taking Crypto Mainstream with Nostalgia & Creative Marketing | Dakota Campbell, Collector Crypt

On today's Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn sits down with Dakota Campbell, Head of Marketing at Collector Crypt, the platform that generated $165 million in volume in April alone by putting trading cards and physical collectibles onchain with Solana. Dakota explains the resurgence of physical collecting is what's actually pulling people toward digital ownership, and why Solana's low fees were the thing that finally made tokenizing a five-dollar card make sense after years of the idea being cost-prohibitive on Ethereum. He also dives into how he thinks about marketing to everyday collectors vs crypto audiences, what it took to scale the business over the past few years and expansion beyond trading card games. This episode is a part of the Solana Sessions campaign that Token Relations and the Talking Tokens podcast are doing, diving into founders' journeys and startups building on Solana. Check out the accompanying newsletter on www.token-relations.com TIMESTAMPS 00:00 The Evolution of Collectibles 02:55 Digital Collectibles and Nostalgia 06:12 Collector Crypt's Success and Market Dynamics 09:02 The Role of Solana in Collector Crypt 12:02 User Experience: Crypto Native vs. Mainstream Collectors 15:14 Marketplace Dynamics and Price Discoverability 17:45 Attracting Non-Crypto Collectors 21:01 Marketing Strategies for Diverse Audiences 25:21 Understanding Audience Engagement 28:41 Navigating Marketing in the Crypto Space 33:34 Expanding Beyond Trading Card Games 37:18 Rapid Fire Insights on Collectibles You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn: / jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: / _talkingtokens Follow us on Instagram / _talkingtokens Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

What the Last Decade of Fintech Got Wrong | A Look Into Crypto Neobanks

What the Last Decade of Fintech Got Wrong | A Look Into Crypto Neobanks

On this episode of Strata Research, presented by Talking Tokens & Token Relations, Jacquelyn sits down with Institutional Research Analyst Alex Beaudry to dig into crypto neobanks. Apps are rebuilding what Chime and Revolut did a decade ago, but on stablecoin rails and Alex explains how founders can set themselves up for success. Alex’s insights cover why the float and yield model is both the most lucrative and the hardest to sustain through a bear market, and where the real opportunity sits for anyone watching this space over the next 12 to 24 months. Check out the associated newsletter for more details: https://www.token-relations.com/p/the-neobank-playbook TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Introduction to Crypto Neobanks 02:59 Revenue Models and Market Dynamics 06:02 Challenges and Risks in Crypto Neobanking 08:04 Future Trends and Considerations You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn: / jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: / _talkingtokens Follow us on Instagram / _talkingtokens Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

Why Institutional FOMO Is Now the Biggest Force in Crypto | Morgan Krupetsky, Ava Labs

Why Institutional FOMO Is Now the Biggest Force in Crypto | Morgan Krupetsky, Ava Labs

On today's Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn sits down with Morgan Krupetsky, VP of Onchain Finance at Ava Labs, to break down where institutional adoption of blockchain actually stands right now. They discuss why Morgan thinks the industry has officially crossed the chasm from experimental pilots to in-production deployments. Morgan deep dives into the embedded finance stack she's seeing resonate across global markets, why private credit and asset-backed finance are better suited for blockchain rails than equities, and why the deals being announced today were quietly in the works 12 to 18 months ago. TIMESTAMPS 00:00 The Shift in Institutional Crypto Adoption 10:08 Understanding Institutional Strategies 20:22 Tokenization and Its Impact on Financial Markets 30:07 Stablecoins: The Gateway to onchain Finance 40:54 Future Innovations in onchain Finance You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn: / jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: / _talkingtokens Follow us on Instagram / _talkingtokens Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

Are Tokenized Stocks the Next Big Catalyst? | Brett Redfearn

Are Tokenized Stocks the Next Big Catalyst? | Brett Redfearn

On today's Talking Tokenization, Jacquelyn sits down with Brett Redfearn, President of Securitize and former SEC Director of Trading and Markets, to trace how tokenization has evolved from floor-based trading rooms to onchain capital markets. Brett explains why he thinks we're entering the most transformative market structure shift in 20 years, why tokenized stocks might be the next major frontier, what the SEC's expected innovation exemption could unlock, and why there are conversations happening right now with bulge bracket banks about bringing tokenized IPOs to onchain investors within the next year or two. TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Understanding Tokenization 02:44 The Evolution of Capital Markets 05:09 Regulatory Landscape and Innovation 09:11 Institutional Adoption of Tokenization 13:22 Brett's Transition to Leadership at Securitize 16:15 Growth Opportunities for Securitize 20:12 Advice for Traditional Firms Entering Digital Assets 21:56 The Importance of Networking in Crypto Events 24:26 The Shift of Tokenization from Disruption to Integration 27:09 Bridging Traditional Finance and Blockchain 30:07 Understanding the Landscape of Tokenization 32:33 The Future of Tokenized Assets 39:42 Regulatory Perspectives on Tokenization 42:47 Envisioning the Future of Tokenization You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn: / jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: / _talkingtokens Follow us on Instagram / _talkingtokens Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guest may have financial interests in discussed content.

Why Focusing on Tailored Approaches in Emerging Markets is the Move | Torab Torabi

Why Focusing on Tailored Approaches in Emerging Markets is the Move | Torab Torabi

On today's Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn sits down with Torab Torabi, CEO of Move Industries, to discuss Movement’s strategic reorientation toward becoming a stablecoin settlement and yield layer for emerging markets. Torab shares what he learned from sitting down with the Ethiopian president and Ministry of Finance, why governments in these markets don’t want an unchecked flight to dollars, and why he thinks most teams chasing emerging markets with tokenized stocks or T-bill yields are headed straight for a brick wall. Torab also discusses the Movement Network Foundation repurchasing approximately 19% of MOVE tokens previously allocated to investors and what it means for the tokenholders going forward. TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Introduction to Move Industries and Torab Torabi 02:07 Evolution of Move Industries and Market Dynamics 05:07 Why the Foundation Bought Tokens Back 08:12 Focus on Emerging Markets and Government Engagement 12:12 Security Concerns in DeFi and User Fund Protection 15:19 Differentiating Markets: Developed vs. Emerging 19:04 Stablecoins and Gold in Emerging Markets 23:09 Sharia Compliance and Financial Products for Emerging Markets 24:30 Tokenization and Emerging Markets 26:24 Understanding Compliance in Financial Products 28:34 The Role of Government in Financial Scalability 31:48 Challenges in Currency Exchange and Adoption 34:09 Key Metrics for Success in Emerging Markets 36:10 Institutional Adoption vs. Emerging Market Focus 40:58 Strategic Reorientation and Future Plans You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn: / jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: / _talkingtokens Follow us on Instagram / _talkingtokens Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

What Wall Street Actually Wants from Crypto | Bart Smith & Laine Litman

What Wall Street Actually Wants from Crypto | Bart Smith & Laine Litman

On today's Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn sits down with Bart Smith and Laine Litman, CEO and COO of AVAT, the Avalanche Treasury Company, two traditional finance veterans who both spent years watching institutions talk about crypto before finally deciding to go all in themselves. Bart and Laine get into what makes AVAT different from the pile of treasury companies trying to copy the MicroStrategy model, and why their bet is on giving investors exposure to the whole Avalanche ecosystem rather than just stacking the token. Institutional conversations almost always start as investment discussions and quickly turn into implementation discussions, but the Clarity Act might be the unlock most people aren't paying close enough attention to. TIMESTAMPS 02:49 From ETFs to Crypto 05:48 Laine's Path from Voice Trading to Blockchain 09:00 Why AVAT Is Not Another MicroStrategy 13:40 The Private Market Problem 14:57 What Institutional Conversations Look Like Right Now 28:43 The Role of Debt Structure in a Bear Market 35:39 AI, Agentic Payments, and What to Watch in 2026 You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn: / jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: / _talkingtokens Follow us on Instagram / _talkingtokens Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

The 4 Things That Need to Happen Before AI Agents Can Actually Spend Money | An Agentic Payments Explainer

The 4 Things That Need to Happen Before AI Agents Can Actually Spend Money | An Agentic Payments Explainer

On our first episode of Strata Research presented by Talking Tokens & Token Relations, Jacquelyn sits down with Institutional Research Analyst Alex Beaudry to breakdown agentic payments. Alex walks through why it isn't one market but three distinct payment flows, each with completely different infrastructure requirements, and why the machine-to-machine category is where stablecoins have a real structural edge over traditional rails. They also get into the four things that actually need to happen before this market scales, and why the narrative is still running well ahead of the transaction volumes to back it up. Check out the associated newsletter for more details: https://www.token-relations.com/p/agentic-payments-where-we-are-and-where-we-re-going TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Introduction Strata Research 01:24 Understanding Agentic Payments 04:54 The Flows of Agentic Payments 07:24 Challenges and Frameworks for Scaling 11:39 Recent Developments and Future Outlook You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn: / jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: / _talkingtokens Follow us on Instagram / _talkingtokens Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

USDT0's Co-Founder on Moving $90B Cross-Chain, the Agent Economy, and Tether's Untouchable Moat

USDT0's Co-Founder on Moving $90B Cross-Chain, the Agent Economy, and Tether's Untouchable Moat

On today's Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn sits down with Lorenzo Romagnoli, co-founder of USDT0, a stablecoin protocol that has moved over $90 billion in USDT across 25+ blockchains since launching in January 2025. Lorenzo makes the case that stablecoins were not just built for Americans or Europeans but for people in emerging markets across Africa, Latin America, and Asia who needed a way out of crushing inflation, and explains why that's the core reason Tether's dominance is so hard to compete with. They also get into what it will actually take for AI agents to transact onchain at scale, and why Lorenzo believes the teams still building with true decentralization in mind are the ones worth watching. TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Introduction to USDT Zero and Its Founders 02:31 The Evolution of USDT and Decentralized Finance 05:36 Understanding the Mechanics of USDT Zero 08:33 User Behavior and Volume Trends 11:34 Tether's Role in the Global Financial Ecosystem 15:38 Targeting Emerging Markets with Stablecoins 18:45 The Competitive Landscape of Stablecoins 21:12 The Future of Stablecoins 24:05 Global Adoption and Use Cases 27:32 The Rise of USDT and Market Dynamics 30:11 Innovation and Staying Ahead 34:23 The Role of Decentralization in Finance 39:45 Advice for Future Innovators You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn: / jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: / _talkingtokens Follow us on Instagram / _talkingtokens Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

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