Why Bitcoin Really Exists | Matt Luongo and Arthur Hayes
In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Matt Luongo, co-founder of Mezo, and Arthur Hayes, CIO of Maelstrom and co-founder of BitMEX, about why they see bitcoin as the best collateral ever created and what it means to build a financial system on top of it. Matt explains how Mezo is rebuilding banking on bitcoin by letting holders borrow against their BTC rather than spend it, and why the lending market that blew up last cycle is now being rebuilt onchain with better infrastructure. Arthur shares why he treats bitcoin purely as a liquidity barometer, why governments will always choose to print rather than accept consequences, and why that makes bitcoin the only rational long-term savings asset. The two walk through what sustainable bitcoin yield actually looks like versus the token-printing schemes that failed in the last cycle and how institutions holding bitcoin on their balance sheet are deploying it. The conversation also covers Arthur's personal philosophy on leverage, Matt's experience financing his house with bitcoin, and why both guests believe people shouldn’t sell your BTC, just borrow against it. Arthur Hayes: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/cryptohayes/ LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/arthur-hayes-b493b42/ Substack - https://cryptohayes.substack.com/ Web: https://www.cryptohayes.com X - https://x.com/cryptohayes
Maelstrom Fund: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/maelstromfund Web - https://www.maelstrom.fund X - https://x.com/maelstromfund
TIMESTAMPS
(00:00) Intro (01:37) Why Matt built Mezo and what drew Arthur in with his big picture thesis (02:23) Arthur on Maelstrom, his family office, and why bitcoin needs to be useful (03:16) The state of bitcoin in 2026 (05:57) Bitcoin as a liquidity alarm: why it rises and falls with global money printing (08:47) Governments choosing bailouts over consequences, and how bitcoin can win (15:04) How to think about risk before going max long bitcoin (20:39) What macro patterns Arthur and Matt actually track (23:41) What sustainable bitcoin yield looks like versus token-printing schemes (25:24) Why a lot of bitcoin holders have never had access to standard DeFi (32:36) How institutions with BTC on their balance sheet are thinking about yield today (34:26) Why every DeFi exploit sets institutional adoption back and what changes that (37:03) Bitcoin as collateral: what it actually unlocks for holders (38:25) How Matt and Arthur each got into crypto (44:41) Is it too late to buy bitcoin? The conversations people are actually having now (45:55) Market outlook and price predictions
ESSENTIALS
You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.
Why Bitcoin Really Exists | Matt Luongo and Arthur Hayes
Subscribe & Listen
How Sky Is Building the Future of Stablecoin Yield With USDS | Rune Christensen
Crypto Is Built on a Broken Internet | Tom Warner
More from Talking Tokens
Why Aave V4 Is Built Like a Central Bank for DeFi | Stani Kulechov
On today's Talking Tokens, we're sharing Jacquelyn’s Proof of Talk chat with Stani Kulechov, founder and CEO of Aave Labs, to break down why Aave V4 moved away from a single monolithic protocol toward a hub and spoke model that works more like a central bank. Stani gets into why a lot of centralized lenders didn't hold up through both the FTX collapse and last October's market unwind. Then Stani explains why he thinks the next real growth phase for DeFi comes from financing things like AI infrastructure, tokenized equity, and credit for businesses that have never had access to capital this efficient before. TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Introduction to Aave and Stani Kulechov 03:09 Evolution from Aave V3 to Aave V4 06:03 Risk Management in DeFi 08:45 Building Network Resilience 11:58 Aave V4 and Corporate Treasury Management 14:48 Tokenized Assets and Aave Horizon 18:11 Institutional Interest in Tokenization 20:52 Mainstream Adoption of DeFi 24:02 Future Vision for Aave You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn: / jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: / _talkingtokens Follow us on Instagram / _talkingtokens Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.
Why MoneyGram Built Its Own Stablecoin Instead of Using Someone Else's | Anthony Soohoo, MoneyGram
On today's Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn sits down with MoneyGram CEO Anthony Soohoo to talk about MGUSD, the company's new dollar-backed stablecoin built on Stellar with help from Bridge, Fireblocks, and M0. Anthony explores why launching MoneyGram decided to have its own stablecoin and breaks down how its 60 million active customers and nearly 500,000 retail locations across 200 countries play a role in it. Jacquelyn and Anthony also discuss why the real winners in this space might be the ones who make stablecoins disappear into the background entirely and how the asset can have a dual role in finance. TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Introduction to MGUSD and MoneyGram's Vision 03:04 The Complexity of Cross-Border Payments 06:31 Leveraging Existing Infrastructure for Adoption 10:15 The Role of Cash in a Digital Future 12:35 Stablecoins as a Preferred Payment Method 14:09 Self-Custody and User Education 18:22 The Future of Stablecoins and Consumer Adoption 21:33 Navigating Regional Differences in Adoption 24:07 Stablecoins vs. Traditional Banking 25:52 Choosing the Right Partners for MGUSD 28:40 The Dual Role of Stablecoins in Finance 31:21 Lessons from the Crypto Industry 34:51 Advice for Success in the Financial Space You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn: / jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: / _talkingtokens Follow us on Instagram / _talkingtokens Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.
Why Every Institution Should Be Staking ETH | Kean Gilbert, Lido
On today's Talking Tokenization, Jacquelyn sits down with Kean Gilbert, Head of Institutional Relations at the Lido Ecosystem Foundation, to talk about how liquid staking is finally breaking into traditional finance. From the WisdomTree staked ETH ETP in Europe to VanEck's recently filed S-1 for a Lido staked ETF in the US, Kean breaks down why institutions are asking sharper questions than ever before, how depth of liquidity is the single biggest driver behind Lido winning institutional mandates, and why he sees there's no good reason to hold unstaked ETH when you can get the same exposure with 3%. TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Introduction to Lido 03:00 Growth of Ethereum Staking and Institutional Interest 05:59 Understanding DAO Structures and Institutional Education 09:05 Tokenization and Its Impact on the Industry 11:58 The Role of Custodians in Institutional Crypto 14:58 Risk Management in Staking and Smart Contracts 17:56 The Role of Staking in Current Markets 19:04 Integration of Staking with Traditional Finance 20:04 Regional Perspectives on Staking Adoption 21:55 Timeline for Global Adoption of Staking 22:22 Market Outlook and Building in Bear Cycles 24:43 ETF Interest and Market Dynamics 25:54 The Importance of Retail in Staking 27:17 Unlocking the Next Wave of Adoption 28:56 Impact of Tokenization on Business Operations 30:41 The Evolution of Institutional Conversations 33:40 Long-Term Thinking in Crypto You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn: / jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: / _talkingtokens Follow us on Instagram / _talkingtokens Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.