Why Bitcoin Really Exists | Matt Luongo and Arthur Hayes
In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Matt Luongo, co-founder of Mezo, and Arthur Hayes, CIO of Maelstrom and co-founder of BitMEX, about why they see bitcoin as the best collateral ever created and what it means to build a financial system on top of it. Matt explains how Mezo is rebuilding banking on bitcoin by letting holders borrow against their BTC rather than spend it, and why the lending market that blew up last cycle is now being rebuilt onchain with better infrastructure. Arthur shares why he treats bitcoin purely as a liquidity barometer, why governments will always choose to print rather than accept consequences, and why that makes bitcoin the only rational long-term savings asset. The two walk through what sustainable bitcoin yield actually looks like versus the token-printing schemes that failed in the last cycle and how institutions holding bitcoin on their balance sheet are deploying it. The conversation also covers Arthur's personal philosophy on leverage, Matt's experience financing his house with bitcoin, and why both guests believe people shouldn’t sell your BTC, just borrow against it. Arthur Hayes: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/cryptohayes/ LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/arthur-hayes-b493b42/ Substack - https://cryptohayes.substack.com/ Web: https://www.cryptohayes.com X - https://x.com/cryptohayes
Maelstrom Fund: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/maelstromfund Web - https://www.maelstrom.fund X - https://x.com/maelstromfund
TIMESTAMPS
(00:00) Intro (01:37) Why Matt built Mezo and what drew Arthur in with his big picture thesis (02:23) Arthur on Maelstrom, his family office, and why bitcoin needs to be useful (03:16) The state of bitcoin in 2026 (05:57) Bitcoin as a liquidity alarm: why it rises and falls with global money printing (08:47) Governments choosing bailouts over consequences, and how bitcoin can win (15:04) How to think about risk before going max long bitcoin (20:39) What macro patterns Arthur and Matt actually track (23:41) What sustainable bitcoin yield looks like versus token-printing schemes (25:24) Why a lot of bitcoin holders have never had access to standard DeFi (32:36) How institutions with BTC on their balance sheet are thinking about yield today (34:26) Why every DeFi exploit sets institutional adoption back and what changes that (37:03) Bitcoin as collateral: what it actually unlocks for holders (38:25) How Matt and Arthur each got into crypto (44:41) Is it too late to buy bitcoin? The conversations people are actually having now (45:55) Market outlook and price predictions
ESSENTIALS
You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.
Why Bitcoin Really Exists | Matt Luongo and Arthur Hayes
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SoFi Wants to Be the Stablecoin Liquidity Hub for Banks | Ben Reynolds
In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Ben Reynolds, SVP and head of Big Business Banking at SoFi, about why the company launched its SoFi USD stablecoin on Solana and what it means for the firm’s broader vision to become a stablecoin liquidity hub. Ben, who joined Silvergate in 2016 and helped build the Silvergate Exchange Network before the bank shut down in 2023, explains how commercial banks are finally building in the space now that the regulatory environment has changed under the current administration. He walks through why SoFiUSD reserves are held in a Fed master account with zero credit, liquidity, or duration risk and why stablecoin infrastructure is still far less mature than people think. He also explains how the next catalyst for onchain payments could come top down from banks with built-in network effects rather than bottoms up from crypto companies. The conversation covers why non-dollar stablecoins at scale would transform cross-border payments, how SoFi's 15 million users and card processing business create unique synergies, and why building stablecoin-agnostic infrastructure is the smartest strategy right now. This episode is a part of the Solana Sessions campaign that Token Relations and the Talking Tokens podcast are doing, diving into founders' journeys and startups building on Solana. Check out the accompanying newsletter on www.token-relations.com TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro (01:04) Ben's journey from: Silvergate in 2016 to joining SoFi six months ago (02:33) How commercial banks think about digital assets today vs 10 years ago (03:29) Launching SoFiUSD on Solana: cost, settlement speed, and throughput (04:30) Catalysts for onchain payments: non-dollar stablecoins, DeFi friction, and regulatory clarity (07:07) Stablecoin liquidity is overestimated: the emerging market conversion problem (08:07) Advice for big banks: build stablecoin-agnostic and understand the risk differences (09:26) Why SoFi USD reserves sit in a Fed master account (10:06) How Operation Choke Point 2.0 chilled bank building and why the environment is different now (10:44) Biggest realization at SoFi: how early stablecoins still are and how fast SoFi ships (12:18) The big vision: SoFi as the stablecoin liquidity hub for big business banking ESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.
What Risk Frameworks are Needed for Institutional Adoption | Mike Silagadze & Joseph Chalom
In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Mike Silagadze, founder and CEO of EtherFi, and Joseph Chalom, CEO of SharpLink, following SharpLink’s deployment ofed $200 million of its $2 billion ether treasury into EtherFi in January and what the due diligence process actually looked like from both sides. Mike explains why EtherFi is building a ‘DeFi bank,’ an end-to-end self-custody alternative to traditional banking with hundreds of thousands of users and over $5 billion in deposits.Joseph, who spent two decades at BlackRock before joining SharpLink, walks through how his team hired people from Bridgewater and FalconX specifically to underwrite DeFi risk, why tail risk is still risk, and how its permanent capital gives SharpLink an advantage most crypto allocators don't have. The conversation covers why the recent wave of DeFi exploits could have been stopped with basic intervention tools, why stablecoin rails will be the main way crypto reaches the real economy, and tokenization growing as NYSE and Nasdaq opens for 24/7 trading. TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro (01:30) The relationship between EtherFi and SharpLink and why they work together (01:46) What EtherFi is building: the DeFi bank with $5-6 billion in deposits (02:24) SharpLink's $2 billion Ethereum treasury and why they deployed $200 million into EtherFi (03:38) Balancing speed and safety: why the DeFi risk playbook hasn't been written yet (05:28) Why institutions move slow deploying, but go fast when monitoring problems (07:25) How EtherFi approaches security: in-office teams, formal verification, and constant audits (08:26) Decentralization theater: why performative decentralization makes protocols less safe (09:17) Why EtherFi is building an emergency “red button” intervention system without compromising self-custody (10:53) How SharpLink's team underwrites DeFi risk (13:28) Why institutions are still in the first inning of DeFi adoption (17:28) How tokenized securities will unlock DeFi at a scale far beyond bitcoin and ether (22:11) Qualified custody with Anchorage and why ops alpha matters for institutional DeFi (23:09) What's next for EtherFi: global licensing and becoming a viable alternative to banks (25:56) Stablecoin rails as the main way crypto reaches the real economy (28:31) Tokenization about to expand as NYSE, Nasdaq, and DTCC opening up 24/7 (29:44) Final advice: stay safe, don't chase yield, and invest in young builders ESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.
What's Overhyped, Underhyped, and Actually Happening in Crypto Right Now
In this special episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek sits down with eight crypto leaders at an event in Miami hosted by StrataMedia alongside GSR and Alpaca for a rapid-fire mini interview series. Each guest is asked a similar set of questions: what their company is working on, how they describe the state of the crypto market, whether bearish sentiment is overhyped, what they would tokenize if they could tokenize anything, and what else they're paying attention to that listeners should be watching too. Guests include Asheesh Birla (CEO, Evernorth), Phil Fogel (CEO and co-founder, Cork Protocol), Neil Chopra (head of strategy and BD, Fireblocks), Scott Dykstra (co-founder and CTO, Space and Time), David Reising (founder and CEO, Lotus Protocol), Yoshi Yokokawa (co-founder and CEO, Alpaca), Tom Murphy (head of communications, Securitize), and Jakob Palmstierna (president, GSR). Answers range from wanting to tokenize chickens and avocados to entire balance sheets, and the through line is clear: institutions are here, the infrastructure is maturing, and the people still building through a tough market are the ones who will define what comes next. TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro (00:32) Asheesh Birla, CEO of Evernorth, on active XRP treasury management and tokenizing compute (05:48) Phil Fogel, CEO and co-founder of Cork Protocol, on risk infrastructure DeFi is still missing (12:08) Neil Chopra, head of strategy and BD at Fireblocks, on convergence of crypto native and traditional markets (18:10) Scott Dykstra, co-founder and CTO of Space and Time, on its new institutional Virtual Vvaults and decentralization after exploits (21:56) David Reising, founder and CEO of Lotus Protocol, on tranched lending and DeFi insurance (24:36) Yoshi Yokokawa, co-founder and CEO of Alpaca, on tokenization infrastructure and the paradigm shift ahead (28:11) Tom Murphy, head of communications at Securitize, on its new Jump and Jupiter partnership, Computershare announcement, and tokenized stocks (34:38) Jakob Palmstierna, president of GSR, on market structure evolution and tokenized equities trading 24/7 ESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.